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  #1  
Old 14th November 2007, 13:15
ElgerAbbink ElgerAbbink is offline
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Heinkel 111 expert help needed

Hello,

I'm investigating a V-1 rocket carrying Heinkel of KG3/KG53 that crashed in September 1944 near my home town. The code letters reportedly were 5K+HS and its W.nr was reportedly 610571.

My question is this: could this airplane have existed, i.e. is this a valid W.nr for a Heinkel 111. My second question is the most important one. The type number that was officially designated for the V-1 carrying role was model H-22. However, many of the H-22s were converted H-6s, H-16s or H-21s that had previously served as bombers or transport planes. So my main question is this: can it be deducted from the W.nr whether 610571 was a purpose built H-22, or whether it was a converted H-6, H-16 H-21 or converted from a completely different type.

Many thanks in advance.

Elger

ps. the following things I know already: I know that it probably came from an airbase near Oldenburg where the unit had relocated to after a reorganisation, I also know the names of the crew, and I know where and when it crashed. Any other information anyone might have on this airplane would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 14th November 2007, 15:35
Jim P. Jim P. is online now
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

I have no 111 WNr. in that range. I would be inclined to guess that the machine in question was an updated H-16 WNr. 160571.
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Old 14th November 2007, 16:43
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

The NVM gives w.n. as 160571 of 8/KG 3 crashed by Staveren on 19-9-1944 crew all killed,

Regards

Brian Bines
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Old 14th November 2007, 16:59
ElgerAbbink ElgerAbbink is offline
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

I thought that number was strange... 160571 makes more sense. Jim P, would you be able to find out more of H-16 160571? Perhaps what the previous unit was?

Also, can it be determined whether 160571 was an H-16 or an H-16 R1 with the dorsal turret?

Last edited by ElgerAbbink; 14th November 2007 at 17:52.
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Old 14th November 2007, 19:58
David Ransome David Ransome is offline
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Smile Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

Hi,

My notes appear to show that it was originally part of a small batch that went to KG4, production late 1942, early 1943, and with usual H-16 upper gun position and probably no turret. Having said that I'm sure in my files that I have got turret conversions so could be a possibility!

Regards,

David
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Old 14th November 2007, 20:28
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

Guys
Is the date 19.9.1944 gospel? It is not listed as far as I can see in the Blitz now and then vol 3. Neither is it mentioned in Air launched Doodlebugs, the forgotten campaign....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 14th November 2007, 20:42
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

Stig,
NVM shows '' Bei Staveren/Holland 19-9-1944 Feindflug '' and ''Nach Ruckkehr vom Feindflug am 19-9-44 aus Unbek.Grunden ''. The Home Office records show two RAF stations affected ( minor incidents ) on the night of the 18/19-9-1944,

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Brian Bines
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Old 14th November 2007, 21:24
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

Thanks Brian

Holland! That explains why they are not listed in any of my books.
Sorry to say I jumped to the conclusion that we were talking about British ground...

Cheers
Stig
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Old 15th November 2007, 01:03
Jim P. Jim P. is online now
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

He111H-16, 160571, n.n., , 6., KG 4, , , , , 07-Sep-43, Pilot error while landing., , Ostfront, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.21, , Fl.Pl. Schatalowka-West, 35%, F, ,
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Old 15th November 2007, 12:09
ElgerAbbink ElgerAbbink is offline
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Re: Heinkel 111 expert help needed

Thanks for all the replies everyone, they're most helpful!



This picture shows a converted H-16 with the regular upper gun position carrying a V-1, so it's definitely possible that 160571 did not have a turret while serving with KG 3.

I'm building a scale model of this plane for my father, who is an avid amateur historian and he's found some bits and pieces (some scrap metal mainly and some bullets) at the crashsite.

It did crash on September 19, 1944 for unknown reasons. We've spoken to an eye witness about the crash. He was a little boy at the time. It was early in the morning and his mother was waking him up because he had to go to school. Suddenly she saw the airplane coming straight for their farm. He claims it was on fire. Fortunately for them, the airplane crashed about 100 metres away from their farm. Another farmer, who was milking his cows in that very field with his back turned to the scene, got the fright of his life!

It seems to me that it was possibly a failed crash landing; the airplane came in low from the direction of the IJsselmeer lake. We will probably never know what caused the plane to crash.
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