RAF night fighters on the 11/12.8.40 night

[ian hunt]

No Do.17’s recorded on that night in the Luftwaffe Crash Archive volume.

[robert]

Hi Ian,

the German aircraft in question made it back across the Channel and has been abandoned over France close to its airbase.

Best regards

Robert

[MW Giles]

Cannot find a Do17 lost 11/12 August in GQM Verluste RL-2-III-1174 either

the losses of KG55 around those dates are from III/KG55 that flew He111s

Martin

[Peter Cook]

More information on the KG55 losses on 11/12th August 1940:

The Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung for this date reported that aircraft of III/KG55 took off at 21.15 (20.15 BST) to attack the Rolls Royce works at Crewe and the aircraft factory at Filton, Bristol. One of these aircraft was later reported as overdue, while a final report stated that the missing He 111 had crashed between Melun and Paris and the aircraft ad been destroyed, while the crew of five escaped by baling out. This was He 111P G1+HT of 9/KG55, which is presumed to have been damaged by AA fire during the night-time attack on Bristol, crashing at Rambervillers northeast of Épinal. This was over 200 miles east of III/KG55's airfield at Villacoublay, near Paris, and it is assumed that the crew baled out from the damaged aircraft, which then flew on its unguided course to the crash site.
The Einzelmeldung was incorrect in its assessment of the fate of the crew, which only numbered four. The pilot Uffz Schmidt and the observer Uffz Held were killed, while Uffz Bubel and Fw Paulussen were injured. The aircraft was a write off.
A second He 111 of III/KG55 operating from Villacoublay was reported as force landing at the airfield with engine failure. The aircraft suffered 25% (repairable) damage and the unnamed crew were unhurt. Some sources state that this was a non-operational incident, but it is possible that this aircraft was part of the same mission as He 111P G1+HT, but turned back with engine failure, probably shortly after takeoff.

Mason, Ramsey/Cornwell, Balss and Dierich list the loss of He 111P G1+HT, with three of them citing a fighter attack as the cause of the damage. Mason links the loss to claims by Hurricanes of 257, but this combat over Portsmouth took place approximately 12 hours earlier and did not involve KG55. It is more likely that the Heinkel was damaged by AA fire as no claims were made by RAF night fighters on this date. Also note that Balss states that the two wounded crew members became PoWs, but this is not the case, they came down over France – Uffz Bubel flew later with 8/KG55 and was killed on 1 November 1940, when his He 111 was shot down during a mission to London. The loss of this aircraft has been discussed on the forum at: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=60714.
Mason, Ramsey/Cornwell and Balss list the damage to the second He 111 of III/KG55, with general agreement in the details.

[BrianC]

To recap, Leo wrote:

12 August 1940 He 111 P 9./KG 55 G1+HT
Uffz Herbert Schmidt killed
Uffz Ernst Held killed
Uffz Richard Bubel wounded
Fw Fritz Paulussen wounded.
Crashed near Rambervillers northeast of Épinal on a return flight from a mission to Bristol.
Uffz Bubel was killed on 1 Nov 1940, when his He 111 P-2 G1+JS WNr. 1571 was shot down during a mission to London (8./KG 55).

Chris wrote:

At 1141 hrs on 12 August 1940, Lt Kurt Caspesius of 9./KG 51 lifted off from Etampes in Ju 88 A-1, Wk Nr 5042 coded 9K+AT. Briefed to attack Portsmouth, his aircraft was badly damaged by RAF fighters and with a wounded gunner, Sonderführer Hugo Engel, force-landed near Le Havre, his aircraft suffering 70% damage. Caspesius, Uffz Fritz Kraus (B) and Ogefr Alfred Knoth (BF) were unwounded.


My records show:
II./KG27 suffered the loss of the aircraft carrying Major Friedrich-Karl Schlichting (Gr.Kdr) Shot down by night fighter Hurricane of 87 Squadron flown by Plt Off Peter Comely following attack on Bristol at 00:20, all crew baled out safely, while the aircraft crashed at Sturminster Marshall, near Wimborne. Under interrogation, the prisoners stated they had left Dinard to bomb the Bristol Company’s works, but they had attacked ‘the harbour at Bristol’ instead. Four bombs were in fact dropped in the Long Ashton district about the time that the aircraft was over the city.

Cheers
Brian

[robert]

Hi,

many thanks for your replies. In fact only two German bombers have been lost during the night of 11/12.8.40: 1 from stab II./KG27 and 1 from 9./KG55.

Best regards

Robert

[Peter Cook]

A Question for Brian who wrote:

My records show:
II./KG27 suffered the loss of the aircraft carrying Major Friedrich-Karl Schlichting (Gr.Kdr) Shot down by night fighter Hurricane of 87 Squadron flown by Plt Off Peter Comely following attack on Bristol at 00:20, all crew baled out safely, while the aircraft crashed at Sturminster Marshall, near Wimborne. Under interrogation, the prisoners stated they had left Dinard to bomb the Bristol Company’s works, but they had attacked ‘the harbour at Bristol’ instead. Four bombs were in fact dropped in the Long Ashton district about the time that the aircraft was over the city.

What is the source for Comely's claim on 11/12th? He claimed a He 111 at night on the 7th August, which is confirmed in the 87 Squadron F540 which states 'A Flight to Bilbury Farm for Night Flying duties during which P/O Comely made the Squadron’s first night flying ‘bag’, a Heinkel 111 which was confirmed.' However, the is no mention in F540 or 541 for the nights of August 11th (when he flew between 22.55 and 00.35) and 12th (23.45-0140) for a claim by Comely, and there are no BOB combat reports for him at the TNA.

Peter

[BrianC]

Hi Peter

I'm unable to provide a source now, but the information has been in my records for some 40-50 years! i believed it to have been correct then, and still do unless proved otherwise.

Happy New Year
Brian

[robert]

Hi Peter,

Maj. Schlichting has been totally convinced that his plane was attacked by a night fighter and stated that part of his crew was wounded by machine-gunfire.
But of course there is no confirmation in squadron`s ORBs but AIR22 gives that 1 Do 17 had been destroyed within Dorset.

Best regards

Robert

[Chris Goss]

Nothing to support any 87 Sqn claim in the diary I have