|
Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Axis fighters lost to Allied bombers
Are there figures for the number of Axis fighters brought down by RAF & USAF bomber defensive fire?
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Axis fighters lost to Allied bombers
If it's correct that the actual number of planes downed was only 10% of those claimed, then I'd guess that in the entire war c100 Axis (including Japanese) fighters were lost to the guns of RAF bombers and c400 to USAF bombers.
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Axis fighters lost to Allied bombers
the USAAF bomber gunner claimed more than 9000 enemy planes shot down in air to air combat in europe/ north africa only .
so 10 % are about 900 enemy planes shot down. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Axis fighters lost to Allied bombers
Your numbers (100 and 400) seem really too low for me. As the post above sail, claims by US gunners numbered 9000, so the real number of losses is probably over one thousand. Remember that until 1944 the US heavy bombers often flew unescorted and the Luftwaffe still suffered losses. Both 1943 Schweinfurt raids cost the Luftwaffe 25-30 fighters IIRC. JG 1 and JG 11 also lost many fighters against B-17/24 in 1943.
As for the RAF, the real number is probably several hundred. Medium and coastal bombers should reach the 100-mark alone and RAF night bombers did shot down nightfighter sometimes. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Axis fighters lost to Allied bombers
My understanding was that the number of fighters brought down during the Schweinfurt raid, and attributable to bomber gunners, was six. This suggests that the figure should not be 10% but considerably less. I believe I have seen 2-5% suggested, for massive daylight raids. I've seen no similar figure for night missions, but because of the 1-on-1 nature I would expect it to be nearer the dayfighter average of about one in three.
It would be interesting to see a good analysis, but attempting to compile a reasonably accurate wartime total would be a massive, and thankless, task. |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Axis fighters lost to Allied bombers
"It would be interesting to see a good analysis, but attempting to compile a reasonably accurate wartime total would be a massive, and thankless, task."
Amen to that sentence, Graham. As can be seen from the above comments, if anyone did take the time to do something like this, there would not be thanks, but complaints that this-or-that incident was not actually a shoot-down, but a force-down, or any one of a million other things that invalidated the data. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Axis fighters lost to Allied bombers
I believe that in the last Schwienfurt raid where 60 4-engine bombers were lost, 40 fighters were shot down (I think ~200 were claimed). I think another 20 bombers were written off. The final ratio is 4 to 1. 12,000 heavy bombers where shot down, maybe 1/3 by enemy aircraft, or 4,000. It is therefore reasonable that 1,000 Luftwaffe planes were shot down by their defensive fire. A cursory read of the careers of Luftwaffe aces shows that it was not all that uncommon to be shot down by bomber defensive fire, although usually the pilots were able to bail unhurt. I think a lot of Lufwaffe planes had heavy bulletproof windshield glass, and the engine also served to protect the pilot somewhat.
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
RAF bombers lost to RAF bombers | Mifletz | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 5 | 28th July 2005 17:12 |
Fighter pilots' guts | Hawk-Eye | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 44 | 8th April 2005 14:25 |
Discussion on the air war in Tunisia | Christer Bergström | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 14 | 1st April 2005 18:47 |
Eastern vs Western Front (was: La-7 vs ???) | Christer Bergström | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 66 | 1st March 2005 19:44 |
Seeking *reliable* sources for French AF ops 1936-June 1940 | lritger | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 28 | 24th February 2005 18:56 |