Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17th May 2020, 13:32
Cees Steijger Cees Steijger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zeewolde/Netherlands
Posts: 97
Cees Steijger
USAAF Fighter Battle Formation - how did it work?

The USAAF used the four finger formation in combat, composed of a Flight Leader, a Flight Wingman, an Element Leader and an Element Wingman.
What was the numbering? For example: Red 1 would be the flight leader, but than: Red 2 the Element Leader, or was Red 2 the Flight Wingman. I quess Red 4 would be the Element Wingman?

Who knows the practise?

--Cees
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 17th May 2020, 14:42
udf_00's Avatar
udf_00 udf_00 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 715
udf_00 is on a distinguished road
Re: USAAF Fighter Battle Formation - how did it work?

2 & 4 for wingmen


--1
2
----3
------4
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17th May 2020, 15:22
Buckeye30's Avatar
Buckeye30 Buckeye30 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bedford, England
Posts: 744
Buckeye30 is on a distinguished road
Re: USAAF Fighter Battle Formation - how did it work?

These are the numbers as UDF says.
Flight leader no.1
" " wing no.2
2nd element leader no.3
" " wing no.4
Nick

Last edited by Buckeye30; 29th May 2020 at 15:54.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17th May 2020, 15:51
Cees Steijger Cees Steijger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zeewolde/Netherlands
Posts: 97
Cees Steijger
Re: USAAF Fighter Battle Formation - how did it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by udf_00 View Post
2 & 4 for wingmen


--1
2
----3
------4
Right! Thanks for the confiormation!

Cees
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17th May 2020, 16:01
Cees Steijger Cees Steijger is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zeewolde/Netherlands
Posts: 97
Cees Steijger
Re: USAAF Fighter Battle Formation - how did it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye30 View Post
These are the numbers as UDF says.
Flight leader no.1
" " wing no.2
2nd element leader no.3
" " wing no.4
Nick
Good. So a wingman could be left or right from its leader, right? Depending on the position in the Four Finger Squadron group. --Cees

Last edited by Cees Steijger; 17th May 2020 at 16:02. Reason: typo's
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18th May 2020, 10:33
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 1,680
Graham Boak is on a distinguished road
Re: USAAF Fighter Battle Formation - how did it work?

Yes, indeed either "hand" at different times of the flight, as the elements and wingmen would cross-over as the leader turned right or left. They were not close in tight in a rigid formation but only fluidly attached. This led to the USAF terming this the Fluid Four at some later stage, as it directly represented the most significant and useful feature.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 18th May 2020, 11:16
Smithy Smithy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 257
Smithy is on a distinguished road
Re: USAAF Fighter Battle Formation - how did it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Steijger View Post
The USAAF used the four finger formation in combat, composed of a Flight Leader, a Flight Wingman, an Element Leader and an Element Wingman.
What was the numbering? For example: Red 1 would be the flight leader, but than: Red 2 the Element Leader, or was Red 2 the Flight Wingman. I quess Red 4 would be the Element Wingman?

Who knows the practise?

--Cees
If you want to go a little further, an excellent account of USAAF fighter tactics including the finger four formation and how it worked including element leader and wingman behaviour in different circumstances is in chapter 7 of Jay Stout's "Fighter Group". I've found this to be one of the very best as it covers virtually all aspects relating to USAAF fighter units and how they worked, even down to radio procedures and which channels were used for which communications. Invaluable book and to top it off, very readable.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
combat, fighter, formation


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Researching the Luftwaffe through Prisoner Interrogations Bruce Dennis Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 61 23rd February 2023 14:19
GREEKS IN FOREIGN COCKPITS: The Life and the Career of Hellenic Parentage Fighter Pilots in Service with the USAAF and the RAF, 1940-45 - Volume A dvas16 Books and Magazines 3 1st December 2021 21:26
About : RCAF 418 Squadron (18/19 June 1944) and USAAF 4th Fighter Squadron (4 July 1944) history canonne Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 20th November 2017 16:31
RAF fighter art work alex crawford Allied and Soviet Air Forces 7 1st July 2007 03:13
Claims identites Adam Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 27th May 2005 00:05


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net