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  #1  
Old 18th August 2009, 14:56
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

On 18 August 1944 Fw Friedrich Hangebrauk of 4./JG 54 was wounded and his Fw 190 A-8 WNr 680821 "white 16" destroyed at 90% in a crash-landing after being hit by the AA fire of a Soviet fast torpedo boat.

No location is listed in Rosipal's JG 54 loss list. The action obvioulsy took place somewhere over the Baltic but I would like to pinpoint it more precisely.

By the way, Hangebrauk recovered and was Thyben's wingman on 8 May 1945 when the latter claimed the last victory of the war for JG 54 by shooting down a Pe-2 while evacuating Courland.

Thanks in advance

Laurent
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Old 19th August 2009, 13:03
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Another JG 54 question, this time for August 1943.

This day, Hptm Max Stotz, the Staffelkapitän of 5./JG 54 and an ace of 189 victories, was shot down, reportedly by Yak-9 and posted missing after bailing out.

All written sources I have seen say that this fight took place neat Vitebsk, but the JG 54 loss list, that says it was in "Pl. Qu 4572".

This is consistent with the claims of II./JG 54 this day, two Yak-9 being claimed by 5. and 6./JG 54 in Pl Qu 45 751 and 45 754 at 1623 and 1625 hrs. This day 28 GvIAP claimed two Fw 190 and lost two Yak in an air battle that had been linked to Stotz loss... by the Russian author Dynmich that is apparently not very reliable.

The problem is that my LUMA Excel grid places this Pl Qu near Kirov far more east than Vitebsk (by choosing 35 Ost).

By the way I have tried to find where 5./JG 54 was based at the time but it seems to have changed a lot during the summer 1943.

Any comment will be appreciated

Laurent
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Old 20th August 2009, 15:56
Jan Gazda Jan Gazda is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

As for the loss of Stotz I have also read Dymich´s assertion that he was shot down by 28 GIAP and also that he was taken POW. However, he does not give any supporting documents and as you have mentioned not all his statements stand closer scrutiny. AFAIK, 28 GIAP was equipped with Airacobras at that time.

Interestingly, 18 GIAP (equipped with Yak 9s) claimed also two FW 190 that day near the town Pochinok which lies exactly in between Vitebsk and Kirov

FWIW

Jan
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Old 21st August 2009, 12:54
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Thanks Jan, 18 GIAP seems a more reliable opponent given the AC type and location.
And now the following strange JG 54 loss.

Rosipal lists Uffz Alfred Weyrauf killed on 21 August 1943 when his Bf 109 G-2 WNr 10469 was shot down by AA fire north of Mga.

In fact his name if Weyrauch. The Volksbund confirms the death date, but list the location and place as "Luftkampf Schüsselburg".

So they agree that he was lost in operations on the Northern zone of the Eastern front. All sources agree on the date and location (Schüsselburg is 20 km north of Mga).

The problem is that he is listed as belonging to 8./JG 54, a part of III. Gruppe that was then deployed in the West for some time.

A Google search led me to another forum where Charles Bavaroise suggested that he was lost one year before, in 1942, so the location could be good and the discussion was saying that in August 1943, III./JG 54 was using Bf 109 G-5/6 and no more G-2.

I use two other sources to try to solve this problem:

The Summary of Aircraft Losses of the Luftwaffe is showing no loss for III./JG 54 on 21 August 1942 and two total losses on 21 August 1943: one in an accident in a non-operational flight and one shot down by Flak.
So far confirming Rosipal list: Weyrauch shot down by Flak and another pilot killed in a ferry flight in Germany (where III./JG 54 was based).

The next source is interesting, it is the "Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen" of JG 54 on Holm's Luftwaffe website.

In August 1943, III./JG 54 lost 5 aircraft, all Bf 109 G-6. And it had no more Bf 109 G-2.

On the other hand, IV./JG 54 had 7 Bf 109 G-2 (and 20 Bf 109 G-6) and lost 1 G-2 to enemy fire and 2 G-2 and 1 G-6 in accidents.

Back to the other sources:

Rosipal had no loss for IV./JG 54, except some Fw 190 of 12./JG 54... And he list 10./JG 54 as a part of III./JG 54, but the location of the losses are the base of IV./JG 54.

And by the way Rosipal lists 7 total losses for III./JG 54 but this is including Weyrauch and a 100% loss on 26 August for Eisenach, but with the same aircraft number as another shot down two days before, with no pilot name... another question to be answered...)

In the Summary of Aircraft Losses there is no line for IV./JG 54 but reports are made directly by the Staffel. They confirm the Fw 190 losses of 12./JG 54, but show no loss to AA for 10./JG 54 (no loss for 11./JG 54 is listed).

The various sources are not coherent, but I think that 12./JG 54 was reporting its loss through another Gruppe of JG 54. By the way both "Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen" show more losses than Rosipal list (I./JG 54 28 and II./JG 54 26, while Rosipal had 24 for the first and 23 for the second, including lost and damaged aircraft. The 5 lost/damaged aircraft of 12./JG 54 reported by Rosipal will bring the figures closer).

My conclusion:
Weyrauch was flying with IV./JG 54 when he was lost. My impression is that the new IV./JG 54 had not yet the administrative structure to fill correctly the documents, or maybe was not deployed in the Northern zone (12./Jg 54 was somewhere else and 11./Jg 54 was ot yet operational). So maybe the staff in Siwerskaya base was still from III./JG 54, or the report was wrongly filled. Another possibility is that Weyrauch was detached from 8./JG 54 to another Staffel (10 ?) of JG 54, maybe to provide the new unit with some East front veterans ?

Any comments welcome again
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Old 21st August 2009, 15:02
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Laurent, Luft Qm's returns dated 25-8-43 has Uffz Alfred Leyrauch of 8/JG54 killed north of Mga in Bf 109G2 10469, the date altered in ink to 21-8-43 from a date I cant make out. There is an admendment note dated 5-9-1943 which has the date still as 21-8-43 but has Leyrauch corrected to Weyrauch but now gives the unit as 10/JG54. If he was in III/54 (8/54) this would put him in Russia while the rest of the Gruppe were in the West as you say. Being in IV/54 (10/54) would put him in the right area it would appear this Gruppe were flying both Fw190's and Bf109's for some time. Hope this helps

Regards

Brian Bines
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Old 21st August 2009, 16:17
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Thanks Brian, this helps a lot. Seems that the final amendment is showing the right name, the right date and so I guess the right unit, 10./JG 54.

Best regards
Laurent
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Old 24th August 2009, 12:23
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Gazda View Post
Interestingly, 18 GIAP (equipped with Yak 9s) claimed also two FW 190 that day near the town Pochinok which lies exactly in between Vitebsk and Kirov

FWIW

Jan
Jan,

What is your source on 2 Fw-190 claims for 18 GIAP?
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Old 24th August 2009, 16:00
markjsheppard markjsheppard is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Hi

Can I throw a question in this thread - about 4./JG54 in summer 1943.

I am trying to establish the date that 4./JG54 re-equipped with the Fw190 at Jesau and then returned to Siwerskaja. I also believe they started operations around 7th July 1943?

The 4 staffel were operating with the new IV Gruppe flying Bf109's as a experienced nucleus and also a semi autonomous unit as a Jabo unit.
Because of this the aircraft unusually carried white letters instead of numbers and we know of the losses of A, B and D. (White A was recovered in the early 1990's and is nearing completion on the restoration.

4./JG54 were then reattached to II/JG54 after Kursk? and reverted to a numbering system - about September 1943. Any dates? Anyone got any Soldbuchs/log books relating to 4 or IV/JG54 during this period?

Hope someone can help.

regards

Mark
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Old 27th August 2009, 11:49
Jan Gazda Jan Gazda is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Nikita, the source is

Пинчук Николай Григорьевич: В воздухе — «яки», Минск: «Беларусь», 1977

Jan
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Old 28th August 2009, 07:47
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Re: JG 54 loss on 18 August 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Gazda View Post
Nikita, the source is

Пинчук Николай Григорьевич: В воздухе — «яки», Минск: «Беларусь», 1977

Jan
Jan,

According to documents, 18 GIAP claimed 1 Ju-87 and 1 Fw-190.

Surely "Vitebsk" as location of Stotz's missing place is an erroneous statement. There were no combats there in august.
I think that Stotz was shot down by either 49 IAP or 162 IAP that claimed several Fw-190s.
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