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  #1  
Old 19th July 2016, 13:09
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knusel knusel is offline
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Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hello there Gentlemen,

one of the most difficult tasks in airwar enthusiasm is determining the I-16 top ace. Possible candidates are Shestakov, Muravitzkiy and Pilipenko.
Lately, I concentrated on Vasilii Golubyev.
The following two wonderful websites are quite helpful:
http://www.cieldegloire.com/015_golubyev_v_f.php
http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/golubev.htm
Unfortunately, none of them features a full list of Golubyev's 39+12sh kills and the kills indicated match only loosely :-(
I tried to merge the two lists and indeed a 51-kill list evolved:
1. 28.06.1941 Ju 88
2. 11.07.1941 Bf 109
3. 26.07.1941 Bf 109
4. 1/6 11.08.1941 Bf 109
5. 11.08.1941 Bf 110
6. 1/2 14./15.10.1941 Ju 88
7. 24.10.1941 I-153
8. 24.10.1941 I-153
9. 1/2 24.10.1941 Bulldog
10. 1/2 01./02.11.1941 Hurricane

11. 02.11.1941 Hurricane
12. 07.12.1941 Bf 110
13. 12.12.1941 Ju 88
14. Dez 41 He 111
15. 21.12.1941 Bf 109
16. 27.12.1941 Ju 87
17. 12.03.1942 Bf 109
18. 12.03.1942 Bf 109
19. 1/6 12.03.1942 Hs 126
20. 13.03.1942 Bf 110
21. 14.03.1942 Bf 109
22. 19.03.1942 Ju 88
23. 1/6 19.03.1942 He 111
24. 1/2 31.03.1942 Bf 109

25. 21.04.1942 Ju 88
26. 1/3 16.05.1942 Ju 88
27. 16.05.1942 Bf 109
28. 28.05.1942 He 111
29. 1/2 28.05.1942 He 111
30. 29.05.1942 Ju 87
31. 1/4 29./30.05.1942 Ju 87
32. 03.06.1942 Bf 109
33. 10.01.1943 Fw 190
34. 12.01.1943 Bf 109
35. 15.01.1943 Fw 190
36. 02.04.1943 Bf 109
37. 13./14.04.1943 Fw 190
38. 15.04.1943 G.50bis
39. 21.04.1943 G.50bis
40. 21.04.1943 G.50bis
41. 28.05.1943 Bf 109
42. 28./29.05.1943 Ju 88
43. 29.05.1943 Ju 88
44. 29.05.1943 Ju 88
45. 02.06.1943 Fw 190
46. 20.08.1943 Brewster
47. 20.08.1943 Brewster
48. 06./07.02.1944 Bf 110
49. 23./24.02.1944 Bf 110
50. 05.03.1944 Fw 190
51. 28.06.1944 Fw 190

However, it features only 10 of his 12 shared kills. Could anybody please help me to identify the other two shares ?

Have a nice Tuesday,

Michael

Last edited by knusel; 19th July 2016 at 17:52.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 12:46
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hi,

i have:

12.03.42 Destroyed Me 109F I-16 4 Gu IAP-KBF WkNr 8347 Oberfeldwebel Robert Behr (4./JG 54)
12.03.42 Destroyed Me 109F I-16 4 Gu IAP-KBF WkNr 8997 del Unteroffizier Hans Schwarzkopf (1./JG 54).

from: http://www.rkka.es/Otros_articulos/2...1_arcitulo.htm

it's in Spanish language and i really don't know if the info is totally reliable....

regards
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Old 22nd July 2016, 13:32
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hello GMichalski,

you're right. The incident is described in the OSPREY volume by Maslov. It's also depicted on its cover.
Strangely, this books indicates 19 I-16 kills for Golubyev, whereas Polak in STALIN'S FALCONS reports his Jun41-Jan43 kills to have been scored in the I-16. This would add up to 35 kills in my list, including at least 10 shared.

Have a very nice Friday,

Michael
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Old 24th July 2016, 16:51
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

hi, knusel, lemme try to answer it
those victory claims from the link (http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/golubev.htm) u quoted r actually from the book "Победы сталинских соколов"(Victories of Stalin's Falcons) by Mikhail Bykov, published in 2008. but little might u know that Bykov amended part of contents and a revised copy got published in 2014, which is called "Все асы Сталина" (All aces of Stalin). and in his new book, Vasiliy Golubyev's claims were 17+15. and another fact clarified from this book is the fighter type once he used: 6/41-2/42 was I-16 and 2/42-5/45 were I-16, La-5, La-7.
and here's the complete list from that book uploaded to the attachement. hope it helped to u
regards from shanghai
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Old 26th July 2016, 11:30
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Dear Stukapilot,

thanks for that helpful input.
I didn't know that airaces.narod.ru bases on Bykov's work.
I've studied the list you attached and found that the listed kills add up to 17+16sh, not 17+15sh as indicated.
At home, I merged the victory dates of that list together with the dates given by Polak, Maslov and airaces.narod.ru. => The sum ist 48+18sh, which indicates that some dates might be wrong or not confirmed.

I wish you a splendid weekend,

Michael
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Old 27th July 2016, 17:13
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Knusel,

Previous posts on the forum have indicated that the Polak book is not particularly reliable and the Bykov volumes should be seen as replacing it.

Nick
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Old 27th July 2016, 18:15
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Dear Stukapilot,

thanks for that helpful input.
I didn't know that airaces.narod.ru bases on Bykov's work.
I've studied the list you attached and found that the listed kills add up to 17+16sh, not 17+15sh as indicated.
At home, I merged the victory dates of that list together with the dates given by Polak, Maslov and airaces.narod.ru. => The sum ist 48+18sh, which indicates that some dates might be wrong or not confirmed.

I wish you a splendid weekend,

Michael
u'r right, knusel, mr. Bykov might make a typo mistake, and it seems that's the common failing of many russian books. but fundamentally, i have to say that his work is much more reliable than Polak's. lemme take an example, in Polak's book, a soviet pilot named Vasiliy Naydenko scored 99, ahead of Kozhedub, Pokryshkin and Rechkalov. while Bykov's research shows his victories were 1+6 in spain, 0+4 in finland and 5+11 in the great patriotic war, so 6+27 claims in his career. it's a quite smiple arithmetical addition but hard for me to undestand y those two records differ so greatly. to talk turkey, i'm on the side of Bykov
best regards
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Old 18th August 2016, 15:37
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hello Stukapilot & Nick,

you're probably right. STALIN'S FALCONS is full of inaccuracies :-( However, it's still the best book on the German market with the largest amount of data.
I really should consider acquiring Bykov's work abroad (+learn Russian).

I also think about buying this one:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/0764304763/...I37FHUZSPVQ74W

Can you tell me if it's worth the money ?

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael
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Old 18th August 2016, 16:23
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hi Michael, yes, I have that one in my collection. I wouldn't say it is the be all and end all of books on the subject but I do feel like I got my money's worth because it was helpful with potted histories of a lot of the units as well as biographies much like Stalin's Falcons. If it counts for anything, nobody I know of has discredited it yet.
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Old 18th August 2016, 16:31
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Hello Stukapilot & Nick,

you're probably right. STALIN'S FALCONS is full of inaccuracies :-( However, it's still the best book on the German market with the largest amount of data.
I really should consider acquiring Bykov's work abroad (+learn Russian).

I also think about buying this one:
https://www.amazon.de/dp/0764304763/...I37FHUZSPVQ74W

Can you tell me if it's worth the money ?

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael
Hi knusel
all those books u mentioned r in my personal collection so my personal idea, that bykov's book is worth every penny of it. it's a reference book like 4 volumes of "luftwaffe aces" published by wingleader, name-birth/death-rank-units-type used-claims-date-location-type destroyed-comments. bylov spent more than 10 years to collect those trivial files and compile them into a thick coffe table book. it's not so expensive i think, i ordered one copy from Ozon and got it after 3 weeks, app.50 euros in total i remember. as stalin's eagles, i have to say the info from this book is smidgen dated, but in general it's a good book about soviet letchiki in patriotic war. as we all know, schiffer's books vary greatly and this book is 3.5-4 stars as my rating. btw, u could download its scanned PDF from internet for a brief reading before purchasing a copy. WARNING: delete it after reading. copyright
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