Alfons Kuttenberger of Jg 52 or JG 51? and more

[Bogdan]

I have some claims regarding Lt. Alfons Kuttenberger during 1941 within JG 52. and no more after . However, there is also a flieger Alfons Kuttenerger claiming during 1943 within JG 51, and more, there is a loss for flg Kuttenberger within JG 52 in 14.09.1943. I am confused....
I would like ti know som more about this guy. Is he one and the same? What military career did he have within WW 2?
Please respond
Regards, Bogdan

[Tom Semenza]

Bogdan,

I have also been confused by this individual(s). According to Barbas in his history of I./JG 52 Alfons Kuttenberger is listed as having 23 victories before being KIA on 16.09.43. As you point out for his first three claims during August 1941 with 7./JG 52 he is listed as a Leutnant. The only claims listed by Barbas are numbered 21., 22. & 23., one on 13.09.43 and two on 14.09.43. He was with 1./JG 52 and shown with the rank of Flieger. So either this is an error or he was demoted for some serious breach of conduct. Examples of this latter were not unknown. The most well known being that of Wolfgang Kosse who was demoted from Hauptmann to Flieger on 15.06.43.

Regards,
Tom

[Johannes]

Hi Guys
I have been pondering the same details, though I had them as Alfred(don't know where I got this from) and Alfons. But saying that there is a section of Micro film with each guys claims listed by date only, only a short section covering Kr-Le surnames. This has only Alfons(Leutnant) with 7./Jg52 with claims Eingereicht=1(then crossed through and replaced by 4)Anerkannt=2(then crossed through and replaced by 5) and finally Abgelehn A.S.M=1. Seems as though he had three, but then this was ammended later to six. Also there is no conclusion to his earlier claims i.e he just stops for no reason, he was not killed or wounded or taken prisoner, and also this Kr-Le has listed the six claims as 18th August 1941 1705 hrs, 2nd August 1941 0550 hrs, 9th August 1941 1840 hrs, 12th September 1943 1107 hrs, 14th September 1943 0620 hrs & 0943 hrs(no other details). So the obvious conclusion is that he was demoted! He was killed on 16th September 1943. Bernd Barbas is the most authoritive person regarding Jg52, he knows/knew most of the surviving pilots well and would have enquired about him, regarding the 23 claims, I would say this is spurious, have seen this many times with others, regarding demotion, the obvious rank to be demoted to is the lowest! for whatever reason.......insubordination or perhaps he caused the accidental death of a colleague?

Hope this helps

Regards

Johannes

[thenelm]

When I sort my claim file and look at Kuttenberger (JG 52)/Küttenberger (JG 51) claims for 13/14-Sep-43, the first thing I notice is that the Anerk #s and locations all match. There is at least 1 minor discrepancy for time, but the conclusion can only be that there was an error in recording the claims resulting in duplication.