Oblt. Schifferings and crew, + 8.8.1940

[DR40eghs]

Good evening,

the Czech ww2 gravelist for German casualties, in combination with the VDK grave database list 4 names with the same place of death and date:

Altvatergebirge (=Hrubý Jeseník, CZ), Mährisch-Schönberg (=Šumperk, CZ)
+ 8. August 1940

Oblt. Schifferings, Ernst
* 13.3.1914, Steffeln
EGL: Brünn/Brno (CZ), 79C-7-429

Fu. Döhler, Hans
* 1.12.1919, Bleicherode
EGL: Brünn/Brno (CZ), 79C-7-427

Fw. Hella, Wilhelm
* 2.8.1913, Essen-Borbeck
EGL: Brünn/Brno (CZ), 79C-7-430
VDK place of death: „Altvatergebirge, bei Übungsflug“
(engl.: Altvatergebirge, during practise flight)

Gefr. Wilde, Heinz
* 14.2.1920, Lübeck
EGL: Brünn/Brno (CZ), 79C-7-431

(abbrev.: EGL = Endgrablage = "final resting place")

Date, place and grouping strongly suggest the 4 men to be a crew and being casualties of an airplane crash, possibly of a training unit (Ln.Schule, FF-Schule C, Erg.KGr., Blindflugschule, ..., etc.).

Additional info/data/ideas:
- Oblt. Ernst Schifferings was (F) with 7./KG 51 at 10.5.40, "Nolandung" (emrg. landing) east of Altenrhein (CH), already on Austrian soil, He 111, 9K+DR
- Schiffering is not listed in August 40 or later in the NVM of KG 51. However he is listed as killed in the KG 51 History (Dierich), lost in "France" (the loss area is obviously wrong)
- two (Schifferings, Hella) of the 4 men are rather experienced, senior - this suggests their role/function as teachers (instructors)
- the other two (Döhler, Wilde) are rather young and junior rank - this suggests the role/function as trainees (flying/pilot, radio)
- the rank of Döhler is listed as "Fu." (Funker = radio/wireless op., i.e. the lowest rank of the wireless carreer). This suggests, he was at a "Ln.Schule".

Obviously, i'm looking for any further information regarding unit, airplane and circumstances of this accident.

Kind regards,
Uwe K. (DR40eghs, Karlsruhe, Germany)

[lilsis]

hallo

Ernst Schifferings war in K88 , danach 9. KG 51

[Faenor]

Hi Uwe,

try please contact owner of this www :

http://www.leteckabadatelna.cz/havar...-data/?phase=2

There is a list crashed/shot downed planes over Czech republic during WWII (and before or after). In the list for year 1940 there is no info of such case, but maybe owner have some info, which is not in this time published.
Very close is this crash - day before, and names are different:
http://www.leteckabadatelna.cz/havar...ly/detail/173/

You can use this link (translate it via google)

http://www.leteckabadatelna.cz/havar...-data/?phase=2

Faenor

[DR40eghs]

Dear lilsis and Faenor,

thank you very very much for your kind reply.

@lilsis:
Oblt Schifferings is not listet in the NVM of III.Gruppe KG 51.
(in German: er ist in den Namentlichen Verlustmeldungen der Gruppe nicht aufgeführt)
I think he was posted to some training unit before his death.
(er wurde vor seinem Tod in eine Ausbildseinheit versetzt)

@Faenor
I know these very informative pages quite well.
To contact some Czech historians for investigation in the Prag archive is a good idea.

Anyway - i will ask at WASt.

Kind regards,
Uwe K.

[Matti Salonen]

This is a fairly confusing case. Those person were reported by Stabsst./KG 3 as follows:
1940-08-08, 2./Erg.KGr. 3, Pobiednik, 18 km östlich Krakau
Flugzeugführer Lt Bielas, Herbert, +
Flugzeugführer Olt Schifferings, Ernst, +
Bombenschütze Fw Hella, Wilhelm, +
Absturz. Bruch ? %.
1940-08-08, 2./Erg.KGr. 3, Altvatergebirge (Jeseníky)
Bordfunker Gefr Döhler, Hanns, +
? Gefr Wilde, Heinz, +
Absturz um 17.10 Uhr. Bruch ? %.

Because Hella, Schifferings, Döhler and Wilde are buried at the same place, it seems to me, that only Bielas was killed in a crash near Pobiednik and the rest in another crash at Altvatergebirge. VDK also says that Bielas was killed at Pobiednik and others at Altvatergebirge.
Unfortunately the NVMs have no info on the aircraft.

Matti

[DR40eghs]

Dear Matti,

thank you very much.
Your kind reply solves the question about the unit, and saves me the time for the WASt enquiry.

Regards,
Uwe Kühnapfel