A conjecture about Me 262 A-2a WNr. 130026

[Karoband]

Gentlemen,

I would like to propose a conjecture concerning Me 262 A-2a W.Nr. 130026 9K+AL that was shot down, probably by German flak, on 12 September 1944 over Elden, Netherlands, killing Unteroffizier Herbert Schauder of 3./KG 51.

There are two conflicting accounts of the take-off point for this aircraft:

1. Dan O'Connell, Production Log, (2005), p. 28:

"130026 Call sign VI+AZ. Me 262 S21. Me 262 A-2a. ... Uffz. Herbert Schauder of Kommando Schenck, (3./KG 51) was KIA on 12 September at Elden near Arnheim, after taking off from Rheine, when he was shot down by flak, possibly German ..."

2. Forsyth with Creek, Me 262 Bomber and Reconnaissance Units, (2012), p. 25:

"... On the 12th the Me 262A-2a of Unteroffizier Herbert Schnauder[sic] of 3./KG 51 was hit as it overflew the viaduct over the Waal near Elden, 3.5 km southwest of Arnhem, while on a ferry flight from Volkel to Rheine. The pilot was killed in the ensuing crash..."

As well, Forsyth states on p. 23, "... Then, on 3 September, approximately 130 RAF Lancasters bombed Volkel, destroying two of the Kommando's Me 262s, including Schenck's aircraft..." Moreover, Smith & Creek, Me 262 Volume Two, (1998), p. 369 identifies it as "... Schenck's own aircraft, W.Nr. 170016 ...", which Nick Beale's Einsatzkommando 51 (Page 2) on the Ghostbomber site gives "HL" as its aircraft code.

My conjecture is that the code for a commander's aircraft would have been an "A" rather than an "H" and that 130026 was Schenck's aircraft that was damaged, rather than destroyed, in the bombing raid at Volkel on 3 September. Repaired by 12 September, Schenck's personal aircraft was ready to be ferried by Schauder from Volkel to Rheine.

THIS IS JUST A CONJECTURE based on Forsyth's statement. I HAVE NO DOCUMENTARY PROOF ... and if Dan O'Connell is correct then my conjecture cannot stand.

Does anyone have information that can support or refute this conjecture?

Best regards,

Jim Geens

[Nick Beale]

I got the code/Werk Nummer for HL/170016 from an ULTRA decrypt, CX/MSS/R292(C), paragraph 33. I don''t have any more but if this was an error it must have been a German clerk misreading a handwritten A as an H on the original message form. A and H are too far apart on an Enigma keyboard for a typing mistake to be likely, I think.

[edNorth]

Forgive, my impression on looking at Ultra pages, seeing the huge number of descreptencies, incomplete numbers (obvious when a A-4 number is given 088014), typos etc; against what "must have been" - I presume less than half was original German clerc errors (rather errors of fact). Rest be intercept and/or typing errors, post processing that is. But I admit I am not all that expert, just user of given data.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by edNorth

Rest be intercept and/or typing errors, post processing that is.

Two things need to be considered:

There was only one way to decipher an Enigma message that would produce German language, anything else would produce nonsense.

Once the day's settings were discovered, these were set up on a modified British cipher machine (Typex) and the operator typed in the cipher text. Unlike the Enigma, the Typex printed out the deciphered result on to paper. This reduced the possibility for error but did not of course eliminate it when reports (what we have now) were compiled.

[edNorth]

"There was only one way to decipher an Enigma message that would produce German language, anything else would produce nonsense."

True, but a number or a single digit of fuselage code (?) you could not tell if was German language or not. But I am not expert. -ed

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by edNorth

"There was only one way to decipher an Enigma message that would produce German language, anything else would produce nonsense."

True, but a number or a single digit of fuselage code (?) you could not tell if was German language or not. But I am not expert. -ed

You either got the whole message or you got nonsense. Also, the Enigma keyboard includes no numbers, Umlaute or punctuation. So for this particular Werk Nummer it was necessary to type in EINS DREI NUL NUL ZWEI SECHS.