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  #1  
Old 7th February 2008, 21:31
rickback4444 rickback4444 is offline
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Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Hi,

Could anyone provide details concerning the 3 aircrew below who might have been lost over England:

Gefr. Benno Pfiffner - killed in a flying death on 1st November 1940;
Herbert Daigl - lost on a flying mission on 13th August 1940 and
Uffz.Willibald Amann - who deid on the 7th May 1941 on a mission to England.

Many thanks

Rick
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Old 8th February 2008, 00:17
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Uffz. Willibald Amann the B. from a He111 of 3/KG55 shot down off Portland during raid to Liverpool on 7/8-5-1941. May have fallen to a Beaufighter of 604 Sqd,

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Brian Bines
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Old 8th February 2008, 10:22
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Hello Rick,

Gefr Herbert DAIGL was one of four crewmen killed when a Junkers Ju88A of 6./LG1 was involved in a take-off accident at Orleans-Bricy.

Gefr Benno PFIFFNER was one of the four crew lost off Jersey in a Dornier Do17P of 3.(F)/123 (4086) following engine failure.

Last edited by Peter Cornwell; 8th February 2008 at 10:23. Reason: Typo
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Old 8th February 2008, 23:10
cheesey cheesey is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Hello Peter.

You mention Gefr Benno PFIFFNER in your reply lost in a Do 17 (4086) of
3.(F)/123! I have the following:-

Do 17 P (Wnr.4086) of 2.(F)/123. Engine failure after take-off. Crashed onto beach at La Pulente, Jersey.Leutnant Gohringer, Feldwebel Kramer, Uffz.Grunmuller & Obergefreiter Schinkel all lost.

No mention of Pfiffner & Staffel is different! Have I got my facts wrong & could you help by throwing a bit of light on the matter?

Cheers, Steve.
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Old 9th February 2008, 11:15
Brian Bines Brian Bines is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Steve,

Ahead of a reply from Peter the Luft.Q.M's returns shows 3(F)/123 with Ff. Fw.Werner Kramer, B. Ltn Wilhelm Gohringer, Bm.Uffz. Karl Grunmuller and Bs.Gef. Benno Pfiffner as killed. There is no mention of a Bf. so there is a possibility that the Ogef. Schinkel you mention was the Bf. who survived the crash, this is only an assumption do you have the source of where his name came from,

Regards

Brian Bines
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Old 9th February 2008, 14:17
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Hello Steve,

Brian has posted the details from the GQM Returns for which thanks, Brian.

I regret that I have no idea who Obergefr SCHINKEL may have been. He is not listed in the GQM Returns or the NVMs for I.(F)/123, nor can I find him listed in German War Graves records.

As to the unit, the GQM Returns certainly list this loss under 3.(F)/123 but I note that the NVMs record it as 2.(F)/123 with all four crewmen listed as members of that Staffel. Their personal IDs confirm the fact, apart from the Beobachter, Lt d R Wilhelm GOHRINGER, who carried the ID of the Aufklarungs Flieger Schule I. So 2.(F)/123 is probably the more correct.

The NVM also provides the location 'St. Quens-Bay (Insel Jersey)'. I take this to be near St Ouen's but how does this equate with your location of 'La Pulente' ?
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Old 9th February 2008, 23:12
cheesey cheesey is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Hello Brian & Peter.

The source of my information is the Channel Islands Occupation Society Review (2001). In it,there is an article by a well known local historian (Michael Ginns MBE.) entitled " The Luftwaffe in Jersey 1940-1941". The article deals with 2.(F)/123 and its role in the initial occupation of both Guernsey and Jersey.

He mentions the loss of the Do17 on the 1st November and lists the crew names as follows:-

Leutnant Wilhelm Gohringer.
Feldwebel Werner Kramer.
Unteroffizier Karl Grunmuller.
Obergefreiter Gerhard Schinkel.

There is also an excellent photo of a Do17, taken from below, as it passed over the centre of the island during the early occupation period. The codes 4U+MK are clearly visible which denote an a/c of the 2nd Staffel. Mr Ginns quotes as one of his sources Herr Hans J. Kreker for supplying and translating the official histroy of 2./Aufklarungs Gruppe 123.

The following link to the Societe Jersiase photographic library also shows Do17s parked up on the airfield on Jersey during the first few weeks of the occupation. I am pretty sure that these belong to 2.(F)/123.
http://societe-jersiaise.adlibsoft.com/ Enter Dornier to the bottom search field and you should see them!

As to the location of the loss. St.Ouen's Bay forms the western edge of the island of Jersey and is a sandy beach which runs for approx. 4 miles. It is a general geographical name for the area and La Pulente is the name of a spot at the very southerly end of the bay. The airfield is located at the western part of the island about a mile back from the shore-line and half-way along the length of St.Ouen's Bay and built on the escarpment which rises up from the beach. It would appear that having taken off the a/c must have turned to the south and came to greif on the beach.

I do have a scanned photo of the wreckage,taken at the time,from another local publication if anyone is interested?

Steve.
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Old 10th February 2008, 14:29
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Steve,

Thanks for your confirmation of the location details. Whether or not Obergefr Gerhard SCHINKEL was involved, you can be certain that Gefr Benno PFIFFNER was one of the four crewmen killed.
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Old 11th February 2008, 13:00
cheesey cheesey is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Hello all.

I,ve attached a link to scanned photo of the wreckage of Do 17 on the beach at La Pulente, Jersey.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1.../lapulente.jpg

Also, local diarist - Leslie Sinel - records the incident thus:-

1st November, 1940.
"German plane crashes at La Pulente while on a practice flight over St.Ouen,s Bay;the crew of 5 is killed".

So, five crew killed. Perhaps this explains Obergefreiter Schinkel! If one crew member belonged to Aufklarungs Flieger Schule I did that mean that the crew was under instruction or were they being tested in any way?

Steve.
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Old 11th February 2008, 14:59
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Re: Luftwaffe Crew lost over England?

Steve,

Thanks for posting the scanned image - always welcome to flesh out the files. Reference to a crew of five could explain the elusive Obergefr Gerhard SCHINKEL. But I cannot understand why is he not mentioned in the Luftwaffe GQM Returns, the NVMs for I.(F)/123, or the German War Graves records ? And don't read too much into the Aufklarungs Flieger Schule ID, it could merely indicate the holder's previous posting.
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