Ju88 shot down Nr Warminster

[dannyharrison]

I think this is the Ju88 down at Imber, nr Warminster. 17/9/40.
Damaged by spitfires of 152 Sqn it landed with wheels up. Markings were L1+XC and all in black which is unusual - on the photo you can't see the codes
It was from Stab II/LG1 and was on its way to Speke (Liverpool).
Can anyone give any more information.

Regards
Danny

Attachment 6051

[Frans A]

Danny,
Pilot was Maj. Heinz Cramer and became POW.
Frans A

[dannyharrison]

Thanks Frans, My Grandad took the picture he was serving in the 10th hussars at the time and was based near Warminster.

[Melvin Brownless]

Hi Danny,

Many thanks for posting the photo, a little gem!
The crew of the Ju 88 were;

Pilot: Major. Heinz Cramer aged 29 Unwounded
Obs: Lt. Otto Heinrich aged 21 Killed
W/T: Ofw. Paul Stutzel aged 27 Wounded
Gnr: Fw. Fritz Schultz aged 25 Wounded

I have sent you a PM as I have found the A.I.(k) report for this aircraft in my files, dont know if you have this already?

Kind regards,

Melvin

www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com

[Peter Cornwell]

Stab II./LG1 Junkers Ju88A-1 (3188). One engine disabled by Blue Section of No.152 Squadron (F/O P.G.St G. O’Brian, P/O E.S. Marrs, and Sgt K.C. Holland) during sortie to bomb aircraft factory at Speke and belly-landed at Ladywell Barn, Imber, near Warminster, 2.00 p.m. BO Lt Otto Heinrich killed, FF Major Heinz Cramer (Gruppenkommandeur) captured unhurt, BF Oberfw Paul Stützel and BS Fw Friedrich Schultz both captured wounded. Aircraft L1+XC 100% write-off.
Lt Col Guy Drake-Brockman was later found guilty of behaviour prejudicial to good order and discipline after assaulting two German officers from this crew and dismissed from His Majesty's Forces.

[Clint Mitchell]

Thanks for posting the photo Danny. Guys do any other photos of this aircraft exist?

[dannyharrison]

Hi Clint,

I only have the one photo, and I'm not aware of any others allthough on the back of my photo my Grandad wrote same again from another view but I have no idea where the photo ended up?

Danny

[edNorth]

Hi guys

Wings appear as per A-5 version (inset aileron) but I had just started styding this tread when my name appeared! I stress its not for me to confirm or not!!

All I can say is my opinion. No code or W.Nr. is visible (so is it 3188 L1+XC on that photo or just another hard to indentify Ju 88 downed in Britain, near Warminster or elsewhere?)

I find it a little bit presumptious (hope I write this expression correct, and none is offended by the choise of this word) to "link photo" to exactly this plane because "owner/photographer" was based there during the war. Possibly, but guesswork none the less, in my opinion. I am not doupting rear of photo info, info from photo holder, the RAF report saying A-5 version nor Luftwaffe losses saying A-1 for 3188 L1+XC, nor other historians info on its crew or fates, or other servicemen.

The attached photo simply does not show code or W.Nr.

Regarding A-1 ~ A-5, all three can be correct (original, an factory-upgrade to A-5 or repair/upgrade to A-5 in the field (depot)). Tailplane is certainly per A-1 / A-5 (i.e. fabric covered). The evidence I have is not conclusive either way if 3188 was A-1 or A-5 (at loss date), as production was just changing from A-1 to A-5 at this point in time (July/August 1940) and changover process had already started in June. We certainly know nothing of possible repair or upgrade, unless there is note in files to that effect. I have no note to that against that W.Nr. Lastly, its old known "fact" even A-4´s used A-1 parts or components, so a part dataplate is not conclusive in judging. Hope this helps.

regards
Ed

[Clint Mitchell]

Thanks Ed. Just to note that the photo appears to have all black fuselage codes. This is confirmed on the RAF crash report also. But maybe other downed Ju88 had all black codes?

[edNorth]

Hi Clint. I do not understand your drift. I can not see any codes on the photo, black or otherwise. You are turning things around in saying "This is confirmed on the RAF report also", the RAF report no doupt says black codes on L1+XC, not confirming this one is 3188 - but is this 3188 L1+XC ? The "concrete" tie-up is where? Circumstantial? You understand my saying?