low level attack sth London 20 jan1943

[Franek Grabowski]

I do not think shooting children and women being in field alone was customary for all pilots of all air forces.

[Jon]

Gary,
Although i find your posts very difficult to read, i get the feeling you are somewhat of a "they didn't do that did they" brigade member.

As for risking 30 FW190's over London in daylight to take out a humble Ammunition store..I doubt that very much, hardly a war winning target was it...some ammunition in a country that by 1943 was a military machine.

[Jon]

Gary,
Sadly your true colours are shown, rude and ignorant to a fair comment.

As Nick said this is the Third Reich we are talking about, i agree many Germans were good and simply doing a job but, the fact remains that if the land forces could have men with the Nazi ability to kill in the name of the Fatherland, then without doubt the Luftwaffe would also have had its share.
If i am correct when the Jabo pilots were told of the school being destroyed with many Children killed, at least one showed no remorse and even glory in what had been done.
Gary i noticed a comment you made several week ago regards a certain Luftwaffe pilot during the Battle of Britain who fitted the Nazi image perfectly, you said if i am correct he was a hero of yours as a child.

I just found that rather strange, respected as a fine pilot yes..but Hero!

Regards Gary

Jon

[Jon]

Gary,
You are very strange! I really think your heart is in the right place but still, very very strange.
Good luck with the book.

[Franek Grabowski]

Perhaps we should start a thread listing all such straffings on civilian targets. Of course there was a number of accidents, but there was a substantial number of intentional attacks by German airmen, starting from the beginning of the war. The thread would have been moderated to avoid any discussion though.

[Franek Grabowski]

If there was no dog-fight, it could not have been accidental. There is plenty of accounts of deliberate German attacks on civilians.

[Andrew Arthy]

Originally Posted by dora9forever

on a very sorry note i know i came on strong about the children killed schools but i read this before and heard so many diiffernt tales. was there not a RAF fighter attackin it the german plane didnt the RAf fighters shoot at this german plane right why didnt the bullitts go down the road as to the luftwaffe plane flew then hit some of the children it sounds a likley story.but?thats what you saw and i aint sayin nothin else.but probably both planes ...
but thats the point i was tryin to make. i didnt try to make the german a hero.and i know too well they attacks on devon and suffolk too.coastel towns but cant see why they would all attack civi targets through.
but it did happen i cant disaagree.

GARY just open minded as usual.

Gary,

So you're suggesting that stray bullets from RAF fighters hit the school and caused some of the casualties there?

It is certainly possible that stray RAF bullets accounted for some of the casualties, but no matter which way you argue it, the school was hit by the German fighter-bombers, and it was the Luftwaffe that caused the bulk of the civilian casualties on that day.

In 1942 and 1943 10.(J)/J.G. 2, 10.(J)/J.G. 26, and S.K.G. 10 were attacking all sorts of targets in southern England. See the photos in Chris Goss' book taken by Leopold Wenger, one of the pilots who took part in the raids. It shows Wenger strafing all kinds of buildings and targets, both military and civilian.

There is much evidence that these FW 190s were targeting pretty much anything they could shoot at or bomb in 1942 and 1943. This is quite understandable considering that they were generally flying at low-level, so had little time to identify and pick out targets.

They were not ordered to deliberately target civilian targets, but they were expected to cause as much disruption to life in southern England as possible.

I really recommend you read Chris Goss' excellent book. As Chris mentioned earlier in this thread, it will help you understand this tip-and-run campaign much better.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

[Franek Grabowski]

Am I not clear enough? There were numerous attacks on civilians performed by the German airmen since the first day of the war. They were continued throughout the war. If you want a British sample, yes please. A JG53 pilot strafed people working in field in the morning of 5 September 1940, in the area of Dungeness I think. The same with strafing parachutes, though it was not a war crime I believe.

[Griffon]

...and to play the devils advocate here (I am currently re-reading Chris´excellent book too)

the US escort fighters too did strafe virtually anything, that was moving during the closing months of the war, deliberately targetting and killing civilians on their way.
this was war, and such things happened on all sides, it is that simple...

[Amber 4]

Regarding the "impartiality" of jabo pilots.
I was a teenager in Hastings on the South Coast before enlisting in 1944 and witnessed all the BOB activity in our neck of the woods together with several incidents in the Channel and must admit to having found it all rather exciting.
That is until a Sunday in the spring of 1943 when I was close, too close to an attack which took many lives and caused major damage in several parts of the already long suffering town including three lunchtime busy pubs.
My main impressions apart from the aftermath which I won't dwell on was the sounds of the aircraft, I only saw two (190s, apparently there were about a dozen) was the crack of the bombs and the deafness that came temporarily
My point is this, it was totally indiscriminate, many civilians died and those pilots were far to low to assess anything that could possibly be termed a legitimate target. Having said that a bomb glanced off a large seafront hotel and detonated in a nearby accomodation block housing soldiers from a Canadian regiment causing several fatalities. So maybe an Iron Cross was earned that day.
Bill