Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20th May 2019, 20:34
HenFre's Avatar
HenFre HenFre is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Støvring in Denmark
Posts: 28
HenFre is on a distinguished road
Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

Hello

I am interested in what kind of education the fledgling Luftwaffe pilot had to go through in order to obtain the Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines (LF)

I have read the book "Die Flugzeugführer - Ausbildung der Deutchen Luftwaffe 1935 - 1945, Band I, Von der Grundausbildung bis zur Blindflugschule" by Carlsen and Meyer.
This is by all means a great book. It does however not go into great detail on what the pilots curriculum was nor how the education was carried out in practice. So that leads me to my first question: Does there excist a book that goes into greater detail about this initial training?

I have found some references to a paper called: "Die flugzeugführerausbildung A/B" by General Major Rath, and I have found the following:

ZA 3/29
Bd. 3: Flugzeugführerausbildung A/B. Studie von Oberst (?) Rath, o.Dat., Anlagen

Bandnummer 3
Enthält :
Gliederung des Stabes der 1. Fliegerschuldivision;
Gliederung der 1. Fliegerschuldivision, Göppingen;
Gliederung einer Flugzeugführerschule A/B;
Zusammenstellung der Schul-, Übungs- und Prüfungsflüge auf A 2-Flugzeugen;
Übersicht über die Unterrichtsstunden und Fächer des A-Lehrstoffes, des B-Lehrstoffes;
Zusammenstellung der Schul-, Übungs- und Prüfungsflüge auf B 1-Flugzeugen und B 2-Flugzeugen;
Zusammenstellung der Flüge in der Kunst- und Verbandsflugausbildung;
Organisation des Ausbildungsdienstes einer Flugzeugführerschule A/B.;
(Verfasser: [Major und Lehrgangsleiter Weldin]), 6. Dez. 1940, mit Anlagen

Unterlagenart: Sachakte
Benutzungsort: Freiburg

My question regarding this: Is it only possible to obtain this paper by going to Freiburg myself or employing a reseacher to find the paper for me?

And my third an final question (for now ): Is there anyone else in this forum who is interested in this subject and willing to share information?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Have a nice day

Best regards

Henrik
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20th May 2019, 22:26
Snautzer's Avatar
Snautzer Snautzer is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,404
Snautzer will become famous soon enough
Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

For those who take an interest and have not seen a Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines (LF)


,

Last edited by Snautzer; 30th October 2019 at 12:48.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 20th May 2019, 22:33
Snautzer's Avatar
Snautzer Snautzer is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,404
Snautzer will become famous soon enough
Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

Perhaps this is worth reading to. I found it on the net if you cant find it i can post it.

Luftwaffe Technical Training
.

Last edited by Snautzer; 30th October 2019 at 12:48.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20th May 2019, 22:59
HenFre's Avatar
HenFre HenFre is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Støvring in Denmark
Posts: 28
HenFre is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

@Snautzer
Thank you for the pictures of the LF.
I have found the "Luftwaffe Technical Training" and it was indeed a very interesting read. In fact it was in that very report that I found the reference to the paper by General Major Rath that I mentioned earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20th May 2019, 23:57
ghostwriter's Avatar
ghostwriter ghostwriter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Southwest-Germany
Posts: 242
ghostwriter is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

see attached the diagramm of luftwaffe pilot training ...

picture source


greetings
__________________
I won't let you dig around in my brain,
I won't let you steal my little show!?
dr. koch - "1984"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21st May 2019, 00:51
Marcel van Heijkop Marcel van Heijkop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 292
Marcel van Heijkop is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

Hi,

I found the following book useful for a better understanding of the Luftwaffe's training system: "Luftwaffe Fledglings 1935 - 1945: Luftwaffe Training Units & Their Aircraft" by Barry Ketley and Mark Rolfe. Apart from the units and their aircraft (obviously), this book also describes typical pilot/crewmember training and the weaknesses of the Luftwaffe's training system.


HTH,


Marcel
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21st May 2019, 12:38
hucks216 hucks216 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Suffolk, UK
Posts: 496
hucks216 is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

Hopefully these will help a little bit - taken from various Soldbücher & Wehrpässe of different pilot types:

Part 1
__________________
Collecting Interests: WW2 German Award Citations, Wehrpasse & Soldbucher.

Last edited by hucks216; 4th March 2021 at 13:45.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21st May 2019, 12:40
hucks216 hucks216 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Suffolk, UK
Posts: 496
hucks216 is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

Pilot types:

Part 2
__________________
Collecting Interests: WW2 German Award Citations, Wehrpasse & Soldbucher.

Last edited by hucks216; 4th March 2021 at 13:45.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21st May 2019, 13:15
ghostwriter's Avatar
ghostwriter ghostwriter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Southwest-Germany
Posts: 242
ghostwriter is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

Quote:
Training course

All candidates for air service in the Air Force, including ground crews, were first assigned to an Air Replacement Division (FEA). After passing through the FEA, the recruits considered suitable for flight training were assigned to a Candidate Flight Company for two months. General aviation subjects were taught here. A basic training of six to twelve months took place here, whereby the instruction at radio sets and map reading were the only aviation aspects. In the later course of the war this phase was shortened to two or three months.
Candidates for an officer's career continued their training at an air war school. All other candidates were assigned to a pilot school A/B (FFS A/B) and received a 100 to 150-hour beginner training course on A2 and B1/B2 aircraft. Towards the end of the war, the number of flying hours was reduced to only 40. The first five hours were with a flight instructor, after which about 25 hours in solo flight followed for practicing take-off and landings and circling. The aircraft material used for this was usually robust Bücker and clamp models. Since these were almost always two-seater, at the end of the training the Luftwaffe pilot's license A2 was almost always required. The A1 licence could only be obtained in single-seater aircraft.
After the successful completion of the training there were different options for the further training, depending on the evaluation of the flight instructors and the ideas of the flight students. Future fighter pilots were seconded to fighter pilot schools, dive bomber pilots went to Stuka preschools, pilots for bomber and reconnaissance aircraft were further trained at C schools.
source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/B-Schule (only in german … sorry)
__________________
I won't let you dig around in my brain,
I won't let you steal my little show!?
dr. koch - "1984"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21st May 2019, 20:26
HenFre's Avatar
HenFre HenFre is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Støvring in Denmark
Posts: 28
HenFre is on a distinguished road
Re: Luftwaffenflugzeugführerscheines

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostwriter View Post
see attached the diagramm of luftwaffe pilot training ...
@ghostwriter:
Thank you for the diagramm. It seems to be very well in line with what I have read about the training program so far. What I would like to do is to open up the box called A/B School and see what inside. What did the pupil learn when flying and what classroom lessons did he get on the ground.

I also enjoyed reading the article in the "Flying" magazine and for most part it seems to have the facts right. At least if it describes the prewar or early war education in the Luftwaffe. One thing that caught my eye though is the following quote: "Casualties at German air force fighter schools are extremely high. In 1940, 27 were killed out of a class of 60 pupils at a typical school." I have not previously read about such a high casulty rate, so I wonder if this number is correct. Does anyone have input on this?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net