Plans to raise a Halifax II

[Alex Smart]

Plans to raise a Halifax II,

From an article in FlyPast (June 07, page 20 ).
Thanks to Roger Soupart
It is reported from Germany that there may be plans to raise the wreckage of HP Halifax II, BB214 of 103 Squadronfrom a lake.
There is also a P47 in the same lake.

From BCL 1942, page 198.
Three of 214's crew became POW's while of the others two are buried in Rheinberg War Cemetery and two , Sgt, J. W. Platt and F/S. J.J. Carey RCAF are Commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial.

Does this mean that both Platt and Carey could both still be in 214 ?
And if so should the 'plane be allowed to be disturbed ?

Alex

[Graham Boak]

If done with all due care and attention, why not?

Bodies are fairly commonly still being raised from the WW1 battlefields.

[Nick Beale]

From many news reports I've seen, families are very grateful to see loved ones "missing in action" found and given a proper burial.

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

To answer, If they are still aboard is it not then classed as a War Grave ?

Then it should not be disturbed surely?

Alex

[Jon]

Hi Alex,
Tuff question. I honeslty think that every oppertunity should be taken to recover lost combatants and give them a correct burial, even if it means all together in one large grave due to no individual identification be possible.
I understand your concern and agree it will need to be done with care to make sure the remains do not simply slip away from the wreck.
I hope they do raise it and find the missing crew, then two more of the RAF MIssing thousands will be at rest and, Platt and Carey can then be with their crew again.

Regards
Jon

[karpkatcher]

Hi to you all, I'm new on here, and this is my first go, so appologies in advance if i make any mistakes. Harold gainsford Dryhurst is my father-in-law, who was one of the pilots of bb 214. Unfortunatly he died in an aviation accident in 1967, so i was never able to meet him. I have letters that he wrote to his mother from Lamsdorf stating "that he felt obligated to visit the loved ones of those lost from his crew" Therefore, it is my belief, that if he were alive today, then he would be doing what he could to get the remaining two crew member's properly laid to rest. Where a combatant falls cannot be a place of rest. The Halifax had its tail ripped off as it came down, of course, the tail gunner may have been in this section, and im not even sure where it landed, but my understanding is, that at least one crew member is present. Maybe you chaps can help me, i am still researching Harold's aviation life, so if you discover any imformation, then i would be very pleased. In particular, what became of F.W. Fritz Schellwat, the fighter pilot who shot down bb 214, he was in a M E 110 based at Mendig, did he survive the war? Last but least, can i thank you all for debating the issue with a great deal sensitivity, kindest regards, Ray.

[Andy Saunders]

If I may say so, I believe that the notion of such sites being "war graves" is simply something that has been engineered by the MOD, and Air Ministry before it, probably, to slip into the British psyche over many years via the news media and various public statements over many years. Let me explain! And no, I am not trying to be provocative.

My belief is that this could well have been a cynical attempt, originally, to cover the embarrassment and awkward questions raised of successive British governments in relation to many many thousands of "missing" aircrew around the world who have never been recovered. The fact of the matter is that when the MREU's stopped work c.1949 it was simply declared that the responsibility of the CWGC had been discharged by inscription of names of the missing on memorials such as Runnymede. In this respect, no criticism is intended or implied of the CWGC who are beyond reproach. Their commemoration through memorials is done, ultimately, at the behest of the government. Theirs is not the responsibility for recovery of the missing.

To the best of my knowledge Britain is the only country in the world who take the view that such sites are "war graves"....which, of course, they are not. One only has to look at the American stance to see such a difference in thinking.

It is a complex and emotive issue, with many different view points. However, it is the policy that I would question and criticise and most certainly not the MOD JCCC staff who do a magnificent job dealing with casualties when they are found on a reactive basis. Clearly, the UK is never going to get into a pro-active MOD recovery route and has got itself locked into a policy of not supporting recoveries of missing men stating that it supports a policy of non-disturbance. Unfortunately, the view of missing airmen's relatives (when casualties are found) is contrary to that viewpoint.

I have covered such cases in "Finding The Few" and "Finding The Foe" and look at wider issues and cases in the forthcoming "Finding The Fallen" which, I might add, has had 'official' input from both the UK and US perspectives.

[markjsheppard]

When Halifax NA337 was recovered Karl Klasgaard had to locate the family of the engineer who was still missing. He was seen to surface but was one of 5? to perish in the water - only the rear gunner Tom Weightman surviving the ditching in the freezing water.

Technically would it still be classed as a war grave?

The family gave permission for the recovery to proceed with the hope his body might be discovered. It was not - so he is still classed as missing.

Assume this Halifax is in bits more than a complete airframe?

regards

MS

http://archiv.rhein-zeitung.de/on/07...markup=Laacher