Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East

Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East Please use this forum to discuss the Air War in the Far East.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th January 2017, 05:29
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 77
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

Hi all. I've seen references for Spitfire VC flown by Goldsmith 3/43-5/43 with both serials. Can anyone tell me which is correct?

Also, I did see a reference which I thought I got from ADF-serials years ago (it's in the same font as the website) which had him flying AR526 -

38 MU 11/07/42, VSM 09/09/42 fuel sys mods(Volkes) , 215 MU 27/09/42, ex UK SS Waroonga 13/10/42.Delivered 25/12/42 to 1 AD. Still being erected on 28/12/42. To 7 AD 19/01/43. To 457 Sqn 24/02/43 Coded "J". To 7 RSU 13/04/43. to 457 Sqn 19/04/43 Coded "ZP-V". Lost on operations from Milingimbie 02/05/43. flown by Anthony "Tim" P. Goldsmith Ser #402500 Prev 126/185(Malta)/126 RAF Sqns He passed away 25/03/1961. Written off 08/07/43. This a/c s/d 15/03/42 1 Betty and 1 Hamp, 02/05/43 s/d 1 Betty before loss.

but the entry now does not show this. Can anyone tell me if the entry has been edited recently? It's always possible I got it from somewhere else and it had been altered .......
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th January 2017, 11:32
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 1,436
Graham Boak is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

From Spitfire the history, BR526 did not go to Australia but North-West Africa. The initial history of AR526 agrees with the above. BR525 also went to 215 MU and then to Australia: dates suggest on the Hoperidge but it doesn't specifically say so.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19th January 2017, 14:39
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 77
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

Thanks for the response Graham.
The current entry for AR526 at adf-serials.com.au has deleted the reference to Goldsmith and changed other details as well. So your source mentions Goldsmith too? The amended info now reads -

38 MU 11/07/42, VSM 09/09/42 fuel sys mods(Volkes) , 215 MU 27/09/42, ex UK SS Waroonga 13/10/42.Delivered 25/12/42 to 1 AD. Still being erected on 28/12/42. To 7 RSU ex 1AD 19/01/43. To 457 Sqn RAAF ex 7RSU 24/02/43. To 7 RSU 13/04/43. to 457 Sqn 19/04/43 Coded "ZP-V". Operational loss as Blue 1, during a 8 aircraft interception of 8 Enemy Bombers and 5 Zekes at 22000 feet over Milingimbi Island NT 1335hrs 28/05/43. Pilot; F/O Alfred "Harry" Henry Blake Serv#400458, belived shot down at sea and missing. AMSE Approval W/O per File#9/16/865 08/07/43.

The same site does indeed say BR525 arrived in Australia on the SS Hoperidge on 23/10/42, so that supports your source. Thanks for the info on BR526. I suspect wherever I saw the Goldsmith a/c referred to as BR526 that it was either a typo or in error. Maybe the entry made in the record for AR526 was similarly an error. AR526 and BR525 are both recorded as having been coded "J", and if someone erroneously recorded BR525 as BR526, there may have been some further resulting confusion there.
Thanks
Peter
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th January 2017, 14:53
udf_00's Avatar
udf_00 udf_00 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 587
udf_00 is on a distinguished road
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

According to Aces High Volume 2 CHISHOLM William Laurence [92 Sqn] flew BR525 on 7 OCT 1942, if exact don't think it fits with the SS Hoperidge.
http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a58.htm
A58-34 F.VC BR525
http://www.airhistory.org.uk/spitfire/p030.html
BR525 VcT 3021 HPA M46 FF 6-6-42 39MU 8-6-42 82MU 16-6-42 Liverpool Nigerstown 20-6-42 Middle East 24-7-42 SOC 29-8-46
BR526 VcT 3042 HPA M46 FF 13-6-42 6MU 14-6-42 215MU 8-7-42 3PATP 17-7-42 Australia 23-10-42 RAAF as A58-34 Crashed into sea off Darwin
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au
A705 166/16/59 GOLDSMITH, Adrian Phillip - (Pilot Officer); Service Number - 402500; File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Spitfire BR 526; Place - Darwin Harbour, Northern Territory; Date - 2 May 1943
Access status: Open Location: Canberra 1943 - 1944
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GOLDSMITH, Adrian Phillip - 402500 23.jpg (154.6 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg GOLDSMITH, Adrian Phillip - 402500 24.jpg (123.7 KB, 10 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th January 2017, 15:34
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 77
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

Thanks udf_00. How did you get the info from the book so quickly??
I now checked Aces High II and see Chisholm also flew BR525 in Nth Africa on 30/8/42 and 1/9/42. CieldeGloire states sources as Shores and Williams, but has the a/c on those dates coded as QJoS and on 27/10/42 as QJoT, but they were supposedly the same a/c. But then on 4/1/43 they have him flying QJoT again, but Aces High II have the serial as ER345. More errors? Changed codes twice? Anyway, not important here as I'm really interested in BR526.
Thanks for the info on BR526. It now seems that is the correct code for Goldsmith's a/c in 1943, and adf-serials is wrong.
Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19th January 2017, 21:35
Tom Semenza Tom Semenza is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 492
Tom Semenza
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

On 27.10.42 Chisholm was flying BR576 coded QJ-T and on 08.01.43 ER345 also coded QJ-T apparently a replacement aircraft (see Mediterranean Air War, Vol.2).

Regards,
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19th January 2017, 23:53
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 77
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

Oops, yes. Sorry, got my lines crossed over reading the entries!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20th January 2017, 12:41
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 1,436
Graham Boak is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

My source was Spitfire The History, but it says nothing about Goldsmith or anything after arrival in Australia, as is common in this work. It shows BR525 going to Australia, the dates being the same as for the Hoperidge, and that it was BR526 that went to the Middle East on the Nigerstown. It does seem that these two aircraft have had their histories switched in different sources, but which source is right and which wrong? If there is independent evidence pointing both to BR525 as being in the Middle East, and BR256 being in Australia, then STH is wrong. But are these sources independent?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20th January 2017, 14:51
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 77
PMoz99 is on a distinguished road
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

Graham, sometimes it can become a chicken-or-the-egg circular type of argument. But in this case I think I'll go with BR526. The copy of the document provided by udf_00 seems pretty conclusive, and looks genuine. Everything else appears to be reconstructions from sources unknown, and therefore more subject to error. Mind you, whoever typed the document could have ..............
Cheers!
Peter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21st January 2017, 05:42
Versuch Versuch is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 9
Versuch is on a distinguished road
Re: Adrian Goldsmith Spitfire BR525 or BR526?

Via National Archives of Australia.

Kind Regards Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BR 526.jpg (103.9 KB, 11 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hans Hahn Nokose Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 62 23rd June 2016 20:06
E.Rudorffer early war claims question Evgeny Velichko Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 15 31st August 2011 10:41
Spitfire Histories Alex Smart Allied and Soviet Air Forces 16 13th April 2010 14:19
Thunderbolts and Mustangs versus the Jagdwaffe (split topic) Ruy Horta Allied and Soviet Air Forces 98 9th August 2007 17:22
The remarkable William Tex Ash, 24 March '42 Brendan Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 4th February 2005 19:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net