Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20th March 2011, 06:35
DiegoZampini DiegoZampini is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 40
DiegoZampini is on a distinguished road
Soviet air victories over Stalingrad

Nikita:
Once again, I apologyze for replying to your posts that later. The scholar year began shortly before here in Argentina, and I have my hands full with my work as teacher. Furthermore, I am organizing the visit of my Russian girlfriend to my country (she will meet my family) and I want that everything will be allright. But tonight and tomorrow I'll have some free time and answer your replies:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov View Post
Diego,
You do not have to translate this piece of narration, at least for me, because I have written it myself.
Ponyal (Understood). No ya sdelal dlya vsex chitatelyax, kotoryx ne mogut ponimat' russkiy yazyk (But I did for all readers, that cannot understand Russian )

Quote:
No matter whether report is full of details or have none of them, only matching other side records could give any result in real confirmation of a claim. Lots of details in report could have their origins in pilot's imagination.
But how can you fully match on the other side's records are that uncomplete as German ones? I fully agree with you that to research the opponent's loss records give the real confirmation (or ultimate discarding) of a certain claim, and I also know that veterans' memories can fool even themselves (assuming good faith).
But when one finds that many gaps as one can find in Luftwaffe loss records, that a loss is not mentioned there it does not mean it did not occur. Furthermore, even knowing that veterans' memoirs can be very unaccurate (and knowing that is always better to back them up with official documents), Why to discard veterans' testimonies that quickly? After all, THEY WERE THERE, not you, neither I nor most of researchers.

Quote:
Could I ask you a question: where did you find exact time of Stracnizky's crash and Danilov's claim? Another question is how did you get to conclusion that Yeryomin and Solomatin clashed with I/JG53, instead of JG3. And the last question could you please list other Soviet fighters claims against Bf-109s in this area this day (I could give you a hint, in general there were nine of them)
Regarding Stracnizky-Danilov: I admitt that time I did not find, but Prien place Stracnizky in Pl.Q. 49161, which is (if I did not misplaced it) over Stalingrad outskirts, N of the city. Bergstrom indicates that most of 265 Soviet sorties that day (specially Shturmoviks) were N-NW of the city to cut supplies to General Hube's 16th Pazerdivision. The place matched.
Regarding Yeryomin and Solomatin: they scored victories in the same combat, and it was logical to assume that they scored them against aircraft of the same unit. There were no two losses in JG 3, but there were two in I./JG 53:
-Bf.109G-2 W.Nr. 14161 Uffz. Gustav Perl (MIA, Experte with 12 victories)
-Bf.109G-2 W.Nr. 13552 Uffz. Heinz Seig (WIA, Experte with 15 victories) (Engine failure?)
Other Soviet claims that day that I know (all over the city itself):
-Ivan P. Motornyy Yak-1 512 IAP, 220 IAD Ju.88 (probably Ju.88D-1 W.Nr.1680 4 KIAs 3.(F)/121)
-Grigoriy K. Gultyayev Yak-1 788 IAP, 102 IAD PVO Ju.87 (probably Ju.87D W.Nr.2432 Crew Unknown 75% written off 1./StG 77) (Accident?)
-Ivan M. Dzyuba Yak-1 12 IAP, 288 IAD Bf.109 (probably Bf.109E-7 W.Nr.6392 Fw. Hans Beruwka MIA 3./SchG 1) (Cause unknown)
That makes 6 identified claims. Evidently there are 3 additional claims that I ignore. Please, if I wrongly cross-referenced German losses with Soviet claiminants, correct my mistakes, and if you want share with us your findings. I am willing to learn from my mistakes and correct them.

Quote:
As regards to loss records, I believe you have got Denes in a wrong way, how you can compare this if you do not see original records from one side and you know that the majority of orginal files from another side has been lost?
PROBABLY YOU ARE RIGHT ON THAT, NIKITA.
BTW, Yevgeny Velichko told me that you are working on a book about the Air Battle of Stalingrad. Congratulations!! It is already in the Russian book stores? I want to buy it!
Kind regards,
Diego

PS: I will repeat this post in a new thread "Soviet air victories over Stalingrad" in the "Soviet and Allied air forces" forum, to do not desvirtuate the original topic (Hartmann's). If you consider that this is the right thing to do, reply there.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20th March 2011, 06:48
DiegoZampini DiegoZampini is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 40
DiegoZampini is on a distinguished road
Re: Soviet air victories over Stalingrad

Nikita:
One more reason for me to assume that Straznicky was Danilov's victim is the fact that Straznicky flew a Bf.109F-4/R1, that is an gondola-armed Messerschmitt, usually tasked with the mission to intercept and destroy the heavily armoured Il-2s.
Kind regards
Diego
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RAF Bomber Command 'Y' Reports Bruce Dennis Allied and Soviet Air Forces 8 29th December 2011 21:58
National Archives Kew David P. Williams Allied and Soviet Air Forces 17 4th June 2010 01:44
Airpower summary Pilot Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 0 23rd February 2007 15:11
VVS divisions Mike35nj Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 7th August 2006 13:27
Soviet air force losses 1941-1945 Six Nifty .50s Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 15th May 2005 17:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net