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  #1  
Old 25th December 2005, 07:03
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

The 109E-4 of 5./JG 3 St.Kap. Oblt. Herbert Kijewski was photographed during 8.40 carrying an unknown nickname ending in an "a" on the nose (See. Prien JFV Vol. 4/1 P.205, Photo #168). I believe that this is W.Nr. 1443 that crash-landed with 75% damage at Marquise, France, on 2.9.40 after an air battle over the channel, probably with Kijewski piloting. Does anyone have photos of this plane after it crash-landed, or know the nickname that this aircraft carried during this period? It could be the name of his wife or girlfriend. It probably would have had two victory tabs on the fin above the W.Nr.

Happy Holidays to all.
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Old 25th December 2005, 09:29
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is online now
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Larry,

the name should be ERIKA, this being the Christian name of his wife.

Merry Christmas

Jochen Prien
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Old 25th December 2005, 16:55
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Smile Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Merry Christmas Larry, Jochen et all

Just out of curiosity, why do you attach WNr 1443 with Kijewski?
Cannot find anything in Jochen's book or anywhere else for that matter, so what do you have up your sleeve??

Another interesting point from that date is that Jochen in HIS book states that WNr 5130 from 4./JG 3 was slightly damaged while Les Pertes de Chasse de Jour Allemande en France Vol 1 claims this to have been WNr 5136 (although they recognise that Prien states 5130). Anyone wishing to stick his neck out over this one? A sloppy 6 easily becomes a 0, AND vice versa!!....

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Stig
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Old 26th December 2005, 01:34
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

I have WNr. 5136 as well with a note that Prien refers to it as 5130. That's the way I read from the Gen.Qu. microfilm.
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Old 26th December 2005, 15:35
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim P.
I have WNr. 5136 as well with a note that Prien refers to it as 5130. That's the way I read from the Gen.Qu. microfilm.
Possibly it was verified against movement card, accident card, loss report or authorisation book.
It would be interesting to learn if Kijewski was at the controls of 1443 on 2 September. JG3 was likely bounced by 303 Sqn.
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Old 26th December 2005, 18:42
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your responses. Dr. Prien has cleared up one of the two mysteries here from the photos of Oblt Kijewski's 109E. After studying the photos further, I'm convinced that the name on the clowling is "Erika," the name of Kajewski's wife.

The association of Oblt. Kijewski's a/c with W.Nr. 1443 is through an unpublished photograph that I've seen. The same "Black 1" as in the JFV reference cited is shown in this photo after crash-landing with considerable damage to at least one wing. The foliage is still full and the aircraft had white/yellow wingtips and rudder, making the incident sometime from about the end of August, 1940, until roughtly the end of the Battle of Britain. It carried a cannon in the wings and had the late-style cockpit canopy, so it was either an E-3 or an E-4. The overspray camouflage pattern is probably a factory finish, and roughly matches the pattern found on "Black 8" of the same unit, which has been much photographed, indicating that they may have come from the same production batch. "Black 8" is known to have been W.Nr. 1464, and, in fact, was shot into the sea on September 5th. By a process of elimination, the only aircraft that fits all these parameters, including being an E-4, that was lost by 5./JG 3 during that particular period to a crash landing with considerable damage was 1443. If 1443 and "Black 1" are the same aircraft, it would be likely, but not certain, that Oblt. Kijewski was the pilot during the 2.9.40 incident.

Since many crash-landings during the period were photographed a number of times and from different angles, I am hoping that someone else has a photo of this aircraft, perhaps showing the tail more clearly and the W.Nr. and/or victory tabs to help confirm the identification as W.Nr. 1443. The pertinent part of the tail is not visible due to foliage in the photo that I've seen.

I hope that someone can help confirm my tentative identification.
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Old 26th December 2005, 23:58
steve sheridan steve sheridan is online now
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Hi Gentleman,
Just as a follow up the above thread, and refering to a/c of 5/JG3.
On the opposite page to Kijewski's Black 1+- there is a photo of a ME109E with the nickname! Schluck= Specht, this a/c also shows part of its kennziffern which maybe the top stroke of a 7? Can anybody confirm this a/c's identity, and also what the nickname translates to.

Also, W.Nr 1464 Black 8+- lost on the 5.9.40 is photographed below Oblt.Kijewski's a/c, is captioned with 2 kills. Anybody got any ideas to the
pilot of this Emil! He was lucky to be rescued by the German Seenotdienst
Air Sea Rescue unit.
Any help most appreciated.
Rgs,
Steve.
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Old 29th December 2005, 23:11
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Robert Szoltyk has recently sent me a photo of a 109F from 5./JG 3 that has the same "Schluck+Specht" nickname as the photo Steve asked about. This IS a "Black 7." Reviewing the evidence and the large number of photos of other, known a/c from this Staffel during the Battle of Britain period, I'd say that the 109E with this nickname is almost certainly "Black 7," which Robert informs me means "Gas Gulper," or in more colloquial American English "Gas Guzzler." He thinks the photo shows a Lt., which would be a clue because it has to be someone who was still flying in the Staffel after the unit converted to the 109F in 1941 either as a Lt. or an Oblt.

So, we still need an a/c number for "Gretel" and pilot IDs for many of the ten or so 109Es for which photos exist from this Staffel during the Battle of Britain period.

Also, there appear to be at least four 109Es in 5./JG 3 that carried the nickname SCHNAUZL, after Uffz. Josef Heinzeller's pet terrier. Has anyone ever actually determined which one Heinzeller actually flew?

And finally, despite the appearance of many photos in recent months of Bf-109E "Black 8" from 5./JG 3 on eBay, and in Prien's Volume 4/II, I still can't determine if there is a nickname or a SCHNAUZL insignia on the cowling. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other? Has anyone identified the pilot of this aircraft, shown in several of those photos?

Anyone have photos of any other nicknames on the cowlings of 5./JG 3 109Es during 1940?

Thanks to all for contributing to this discussion.
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Old 30th December 2005, 11:53
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is online now
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Larry,

the name of the pilot of the Bf 109 E and F with the nick name "Schluck=Specht" is Buddenhagen; since I am at the office right now I can't check the Christian name but I seem to remember it was Horst. He was killed early in the Russian Campaign in 1941.

The German word Schluckspecht is entirely colloquial and describes a person who likes the booze and takes a lot of it.

Hope this helps.

Jochen
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Old 30th December 2005, 12:28
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Hohentwiel Hohentwiel is offline
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Re: 109E of Oblt. Herbert Kijewski, StKap 5./JG3 8.40

Hello Gentlemen,

the interesting fact of "Schluck=Specht" is that we have at least 3 different
"Schluck-Specht". The first one was "Schluck=Specht", then we have
"2. Schluck=Specht" and "3. Schluck=Specht"! Maybe this was the plane
Buddenhagen flew as he was killed at 25/Jun/1941. "Horst" the right name.

Maybe the "Black 8" is the well known "Gretel" but I'm not really sure.
I saw a photo group of "Black 8" and at some photos you could see the
nickname "Gretel". I hope Mr. Prien can help here.
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