Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31st January 2005, 21:03
ironrat ironrat is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 29
ironrat
Me-262 losses the 21st February 1945.

I was wondering if anyone had info, or a complete list of the Me-262 losses the 21/02/1945.
Cheers,
Ironrat
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 31st January 2005, 21:44
Tom D Tom D is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 15
Tom D
Me 262 Losses on 21/02/45

According to "The Me 262 Combat Diary," Appendix II "Known Losses of Me 262 Aicraft," there were ten Me 262's lost on 21/02/45:

II/JG 7, Wk Nr 110810; III/JG 7, Wk Nr 110519; II/KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 170004; II/KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 500056; II/KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 170199; II?KG(J) 51, Wk Nr 170010; II/KG(J) 54, Wk Nr 111612; I/KG(J) 54, Wk Nr 111630; 10/NJG 11, Wk Nr 110600; and 2/NAufkgr 6, Wk Nr 110565.

Tom D
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 31st January 2005, 22:18
ironrat ironrat is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 29
ironrat
Well, from stormbirds list:


110565 - oblt. Willy Knoll, crashed at Landsberg/Lech

110600 - damaged during combat, destroyed landing at Prenzlau

111612 - crashed at Gibelstadt

170199, belonged to Gerhard Rohde, crashed - where?? were did he took off from for his mission?

111630 , strafed at Gibelstadt

170004, Reifenschaden, tyre burst on take off

And the others?? Were they any Me-262 MIA that day?

Ironrat
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 1st February 2005, 14:55
Andreas Brekken's Avatar
Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Aurskog, Norway
Posts: 1,481
Andreas Brekken is on a distinguished road
Me 262 losses 21.02.1945

Hi, guys.

I have details of 11 losses on this date:

Date: Unit: Aircraft:
21.02.1945 III./Erg.J.G.2 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 111616
21.02.1945 II./J.G.7 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110810
21.02.1945 III./J.G.7 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110964
21.02.1945 I./K.G.(J) 54 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 111630
21.02.1945 III./K.G.(J) 54 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 111612
21.02.1945 I./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 WNr. 0199
21.02.1945 II./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-2 WNr. 170004
21.02.1945 II./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-2 WNr. 170010
21.02.1945 II./K.G.51 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-2 WNr. 500056
21.02.1945 Stab/N.A.Gr.6 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110565
21.02.1945 III./N.J.G.11 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1 WNr. 110600

As You can see, the WNr of the III./JG 7 aircraft differs from the list posted by Tom D.

Also - I have still to see confirmation that KG 51 were ever renamed/reassigned as a KG(J) unit, and I feel we should avoid using this designation for KG 51.

I have not worked on these, they are the 'raw' reports by GenQu 6 Abt. Locations are given for all except the 0199, 170004 and 500056.

This late there would really be no way of telling if this is a complete list (as is the case for most of the war except the period covered by the Summarische Verlustemeldungen)

Regards,
Andreas
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 1st February 2005, 15:58
ironrat ironrat is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 29
ironrat
The 170004 was probably destroyed at Reifenschaden, because of a tyre burst on take off . The locations you are talking about are the loss locations or airfields locations? If loss, could you give them for the remaining machines from your list?

It still leaves the 170199 and the 500056 werknumber Me-262. Maybe others?
Regards,
Ironrat
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2nd February 2005, 12:00
ironrat ironrat is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 29
ironrat
Andreas,
I have an account of a P-51D from the 356FG shooting down a Me-262 the 21st Feb. 1945. In many publications, the Me-262 is identified as Rhode's jet.
I think it wasn't Rohde.

First, as the fight took place some way east of Berlin and I/KG 51 was at this time at the Rheine/Hopsten aifield it could'n reach the presumed combat area and go back to his airfield.

Second, form a friend in Holland I have an in formation about Rhode being downed by british AA. More important he had acces to a copy of Rohde MIA document stating his take off after 17 00H. The P-51D downed its Messerchmitt around 15 30 H.

If it wasn't Rohde, who was it? Where to look for?

Regards,
Ironrat
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd February 2005, 12:15
Ruy Horta's Avatar
Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
He who rules the forum...
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Amstelveen, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,473
Ruy Horta has disabled reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironrat
Andreas,
More important he had acces to a copy of Rohde MIA document stating his take off after 17 00H. The P-51D downed its Messerchmitt around 15 30 H.
Just a remark, but are you sure they are using the same time zone?

If 15:30 is GMT and 17:00 is German time it could still be possible.
__________________
Ruy Horta
12 O'Clock High!

And now I see with eye serene
The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,
A traveller between life and death;
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd February 2005, 12:33
ironrat ironrat is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 29
ironrat
Well, the difference between GMT and German time is 1 H, as I wrote the Me-262 took of after 17 00 H, 17 08H based on the document, if you add a few houndreds km to fly before reaching the encounter place... I don't think so. The Me-262 in Holland was downed at 17 30-17 40, near Volkel base which seams possible to me.
Well, There are 2 downed Me-262 and only one Rohde. I belive he was downed at Volkel by AA, and not downed by a P-51D houndreds of km from there.
The question still remains. Who was flying the second machine? What unit could have sent a Me-262 fighting some kilometers east of Berlin?

Regards
Ironrat
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2nd February 2005, 18:27
ironrat ironrat is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 29
ironrat
I'm not an expert in the firld of Me-262, if somebody could help me more or at least point out were to look for.

I compared today the list from Stormbirds with Osprey's "German Jet Aces of WWII". In the book there is mention of OFW Helmut Baudach who bailed out wounded near Schonwalde (Niederbayern). The book is giving the date 21st of Feb. 1945 (yes!!), but Stormbirds gives 22nd of Feb. Which one is the right one?

By the way. I've got from a friend Tony Wood's list for the 1939/1940 period. There are a lot of errors on the list, at least concerning the types of planes downed in September 1939 over Poland. How could I contact Tony?

Regards
Ironrat
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17th March 2005, 03:06
George Hopp's Avatar
George Hopp George Hopp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ottawa, CA
Posts: 831
George Hopp
Re: Me-262 losses the 21st February 1945.

Times are a big trial, because the UK used double Daylight Saving Time during the summer, so, what did it use during the winter? I ask because local times were often used rather than GMT, and I am just wondering if the two were the same where the 356th FG was based.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RAF losses 5./6. March 1945 JanZ Allied and Soviet Air Forces 13 25th February 2012 12:40
Documentation of 2000HP Bf 109s of 1945 Kurfürst Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 10th September 2009 12:15
Soviet air force losses 1941-1945 Six Nifty .50s Allied and Soviet Air Forces 12 15th May 2005 17:57
RAF losses on March 22th 1945 milanbencek Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 0 23rd March 2005 16:50
13 February 1945 Leon Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 14th March 2005 02:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2007, 12oclockhigh.net