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  #1  
Old 19th March 2017, 17:58
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

Gentlemen,

on 6 August 1944 Luftwaffe fighter Gruppen were in action against RAF BC Lancasters and Halifaxes northwest of Paris, claiming 16 four-engined bombers, Flak claiming another one. Eight of the claims were filed addressing the victims as B-24s although this was just another example of poor a/c identification.

RAF BC registered the loss of only three Lancasters, the loss of a Halifax from a formation aimed at Hazebrouck not being related to the action northwest of Paris.

While this is definitely another example of Luftwaffe overclaiming I would like to konw how many Lancasters and Halifaxes came down over allied territory in France or over the UK with battle damage so that they had to be scrapped as Cat. E. Could anyone please enlighten me ?

KR

Jochen Prien
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Old 19th March 2017, 18:42
Alain57 Alain57 is offline
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Re: RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

Hello ,

According BC Losses by Chorley :
August 6 1944

50 Sqdn Lancaster MkI W4824 crashed at Pontoise
83 Sqdn Lancaster MK III ND930 crashed at Pontoise
83 Sqdn Lancaster MK III PB140 crashed at Ford airfield Sussex
97 Sqdn Lancaster Mk III ND840 crashed Eaubonne 14 km east-south-east of Pontoise
51 Sqdn Halifax Mk III LW546 Missing whitout trace

Regards
Alain57
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Old 19th March 2017, 18:46
MW Giles MW Giles is offline
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Re: RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

Bois de Cassan raid consisted of 99 Lancasters, 1 Lightning from 5 Group and 5 Mosquitos from 8 Group

Three Lancasters crashed in France W4824 of 50 Sqn, ND930 of 83 Sqn and ND840 of 97 Sqn

A further 83 Sqn Lancaster PB140 was damaged by fighters and crash landed at Ford on reaching English coast with engine, control surface and rear turret damage. That is the only extra loss

Ramrod 1170 with 120 Spitfires (10 Sqns) escorted the Bois de Cassan and Forêt de Nieppe raids (There were no losses from the Forêt de Nieppe action)

The 331 Sqn ORB notes approximately 25 a/c attempted to intercept the bombers, but says they were summarily dealt with. 331 Sqn claimed 3-0-1 for no loss. This was the only RAF fighter claim

The 83 Sqn ORB describes the fighter escort being absent for a time and 8 black Me109s attacking Lancasters, two were seen to go down

Martin
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Old 19th March 2017, 20:23
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

Hello,
I also checked the four Lancaster's and one Halifax.
The 8th AAF lost 1 - B24 on the 5/6 August 44 and later, on the 6th, 8 - B24's were lost as well as two others that were in collision on return from ops.
I have not included any Stirling's or Fortresses as they were single fin/rudder types, but were four motor aircraft. So just might have been misidentified at the time.
Alex
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Old 19th March 2017, 21:05
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

Dear Alain, Martin and Alex,

many thanks for your swift reaction - exactly what I was hoping for.

Best regards

Jochen Prien
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Old 19th March 2017, 22:19
RodM RodM is offline
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Re: RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

Bois de Cassan Raid, Bomber Command aircraft damaged (according to Bomber Command ORS Summary of Aircraft Damaged on Day and Night Operations No. 41, 1st - 16th August, 1944):

No. 5 Group Lancasters damaged by Flak:

PD222/U 44 Sqn
PD220/M 207 Sqn
LL844/R 463 Sqn
JB399/A 49 Sqn
LM591/B (CAT. AC) 50 Sqn
LM517/C 57 Sqn
PB230/V 83 Sqn
PA973/A 97 Sqn
PA974/B 97 Sqn
PB297/C 619 Sqn

No. 5 Group Lancasters damaged by Fighters:

PD209/V (CAT. B) 207 Sqn
LM582/B (CAT. AC) 57 Sqn
LM673/U (CAT. AC) 57 Sqn
PB140/H (CAT. E) 83 Sqn

No. 5 Group Lancasters damaged Not Due to Enemy Action (NDEA):

Nil

No damage was reported for the Lightning or Mosquitos involved in the raid.

This list should be read in conjunction with those aircraft reported missing.
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Old 19th March 2017, 23:17
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

I found this in Ultra (National Archives HW5/554).
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File Type: jpg CX_MSS_R269_C34.jpg (127.3 KB, 59 views)
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Old 20th March 2017, 10:52
Jochen Prien Jochen Prien is offline
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Re: RAF BC losses on 6 August 1944

Rod and Nick,

thanks for your valuable input which is much appreciated.

Cheers

Jochen
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