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Old 20th March 2017, 16:06
maxjvb maxjvb is offline
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3 Me109 crashed in Lake Garda area

Hi Friends,
i post again a research about 3 Me109 crashed on 19.07.1944 around Lake Garda, during an attack to a group of B17.
The 109s could be by 77 Jadg but, on Prien book, i found just "3 planes crashed in Villafranca Area".
No wreknumers, no pilots names, nothing.
Where could i research to pick best infos?
Diego Vezzoli
Air Crash Po
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Old 20th March 2017, 16:42
Andreas Brekken's Avatar
Andreas Brekken Andreas Brekken is offline
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Re: 3 Me109 crashed in Lake Garda area


I guess mr. Prien might answer here, and that he have obtained further information since the older JG 77 volumes were written.

However - as a general answer I can say that the loss records we usually look at when compiling loss data - the listings compiled by the Genst.Gen.Qu.6.Abt, are missing for most of 1944 - lost in time.

So - we have to work off other sources like the loss record by name - which are held at the WASt facility in Berlin. But for such a record to exist, one or more crew members must have been injured, listed as missing or killed in action.

One can of course find bits and pieces of information from other sources also, like war diaries and local records from police and lots of others. But it is a very painstaking work to research the thousands of losses sustained by the Luftwaffe in 1944 this way. On the date you refer there are nearly 90 aircraft listed as damaged or lost by the Luftwaffe fighter units alone.

The records we do have are the summary loss records - these are sheets recorded for statistical purpose which where based on the detailed daily loss reports. These are split in aircraft losses and personnel losses.

With regards to the losses you look for information on, there were two from I./JG 77 and one from III./JG 77. According to the summary personnel loss records, no personnel were listed for the three incident on the date, and as two of the aircraft were listed as destroyed in air combat (cat 4) it is safe to assume that these either landed their damaged aircraft safely even if the aircraft was considered damaged beyond repair - or that they simply abandoned the stricken aircraft by parachute.

Sorry I could not help you more - but unless other records appear for the date it is unlikely that we will ever know exactly who flew these aircraft and which airframes it was (with regards to WNr etc).

Andreas B
Ahhh... but I have seen the holy grail! And it is painted RLM 76 all over with a large Mickey Mouse on the side, there is a familiar pilot in front of it and it has an Erla Haube!

Last edited by Andreas Brekken; 20th March 2017 at 16:42. Reason: Spelling
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