JG 51 victories (Part 2)

[Courtois Laurent]

6. 03.04.43 Fw. Rudolf Wagner 10./JG 51Douglas DC-35 km. W. Nowaiki: at 5 m.14.15 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 243

1st OTD (detached air transport regiment): All day the regiment parachuted supplies to the 30th Army (in the Novaya Guta, Barany Gorki, Lisichino sector - 20 km NNW of safonovo). 9 Li-2s made 27 flights and delivered 56 tonnes of food. A Li-2 was shot down1 by an enemy fighter. Of the six crew members four were killed and two wounded. The plane was destroyed.

7. 13.04.43 Fw. Rudolf Wagner 10./JG 5, Yak-1, 45 574: at 1.000 m.: at 14.13 FFilm C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 225

Yves Bizien of the GC3 "Normandie".

If this is of interest to a member of the forum, I would like to try to check his other victories

[focusfocus]

Hello

Really ? Bizien victim of Wagner....why not Derville or Poznanski?

And "Quid" of the claims of Pfhaler (his victim..Bizien?, or victim of Schamberger ?

The 3 made their claims in the same region...Spas-Demjansk

Michel

[Monaco]

Equipped with the excellent Yak-1 fighter french volunteers of GC Normandie (Major J. Tulasne) suffered their first combat losses – 3 pilots were KIA (Asp. Marcel Bizien, Lt. Raymond Derville & Lt. André Poznanski) in a combat between 6 Yak-1Ms and 8 Fw.190s ( from IV./JG.51) over Spass-Demiensk 15km behind german lines- whilst flying from Polotriani-Zavod, sw. Moscow. In return pilots of GC Normandie claimed 3 Fw.190s (including 1 shared by Poznanski, Derville & Bizien) destroyed although JG.51 recorded no personnel losses, but probably overclaimed with 5 Yak-1s s/d (maybe another Yak-Regiment was involved).
13.04.43 Fw. Rudolf Wagner 10./JG 51 Jak-1 45 574: at 1.000 m. 14.13 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 225
13.04.43 Ofw. Hans Pfahler 12./JG 51 Jak-1 45 543: at 2.000 m. 14.15 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 472
13.04.43 Ofw. Hans Pfahler 12./JG 51 Jak-1 45 572: at 1.800 m. 14.20 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 473
13.04.43 Uffz. Martin Schamberger 11./JG 51 Jak-1 45 522: at 3.000 m. 14.25 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 395
13.04.43 Uffz. Martin Schamberger 11./JG 51 Jak-1 45 542: at 2.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2032/II Anerk: Nr. 396
All German claimants were aces and wouldn´t survive 1943: Pfahler: 30 victories MIA 10.07.43, Schamberger: 14 victories, MIA 19.06.43 and Wagner (RK): 81, MIA 11.12.43.

13/04/43 Détruit Fw 190 Yak 1M Spsas / Danemark 6 (Slt) Durand Albert
13/04/43 Détruit Fw 190 Yak 1M Spsas / Danemark 3 (Slt) Mahé Yves
13/04/43 Détruit Fw 190 Yak 1M Spsas/ Danemark 111 (Lt) Derville Raymond, (Lt) Poznanski André and (Asp) Bizien Marcel

After this blow to morale GC Normandie was attached to 18 GIAP (Mayor Golubov), seeing more combat and morale improved despite the fact that in May low-level ground attacks had to be flown and another pilot was lost. Replacements arrived in time when the regiment was down to 10 pilots. It seems that GC Normandie was attached to 303 IAD (Gen. Zakharov) in June 1943 in preparation of the Battle for Orel.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Monaco

13/04/43 Détruit Fw 190 Yak 1M Spsas / Danemark 6 (Slt) Durand Albert
13/04/43 Détruit Fw 190 Yak 1M Spsas / Danemark 3 (Slt) Mahé Yves
13/04/43 Détruit Fw 190 Yak 1M Spsas/ Danemark 111 (Lt) Derville Raymond, (Lt) Poznanski André and (Asp) Bizien Marcel

Excuse my ignorance but what does 'Danemark 6, 3 and 111' mean? I assume Spsas is actually Spass?

Cheers
Stig

[Monaco]

Oh, that´s from a french site:
Spas Demensk, the number = number of victory, 111 = 1 shared for each of the three

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Monaco

Oh, that´s from a french site:
Spas Demensk, the number = number of victory, 111 = 1 shared for each of the three

Ahh
They could have fooled me....
Cheers
Stig

[kirche]

Originally Posted by Monaco

After this blow to morale GC Normandie was attached to 18 GIAP (Mayor Golubov), seeing more combat and morale improved despite the fact that in May low-level ground attacks had to be flown and another pilot was lost. Replacements arrived in time when the regiment was down to 10 pilots. It seems that GC Normandie was attached to 303 IAD (Gen. Zakharov) in June 1943 in preparation of the Battle for Orel.

on 13.04.1943 - it was directly subordinate to 1 VA (in the documents as "1 separate fighter squadron of Fighting France")
21.04.1943 - it was first mentioned in the Journal of Combat Operations 303 IAD as an independent unit (AE "Normandiya"). In the documents 1 VA continued to be indicated as an independent unit. That is, the squadron was transferred to the operational subordination of a larger unit of the 1st VA, but legally it was subordinated to the army.Normandy was not considered as part of the 18 GIAP. She also flew combat missions together with other regiments of the 303 IAD
In mid-July 1943, it was listed in the army lists as an independent unit, not being part of the 303 IAD.

[Courtois Laurent]

Originally Posted by focusfocus

Hello

Really ? Bizien victim of Wagner....why not Derville or Poznanski?

And "Quid" of the claims of Pfhaler (his victim..Bizien?, or victim of Schamberger ?

The 3 made their claims in the same region...Spas-Demjansk

Michel

Hello Michel,

All the works can be read here :

https://aérofanzine.fr/categorie-produit/dernier-numero/

Or you could read on extract the 1éth april in my page, and foloowing day by day the story of the "Normandie".

https://normandie-niemen.fr/

Derville was the last shooted, near the lac of Miliatio. If would be an question it's would Why Bizien more than Poznansky ?

"The first victim of the attack is BIZIEN who is lost sight of by his teammate Yves MAHÉ. It is therefore probably the victory (225) claimed by Feldwebel Rudolf WAGNER in sector 455574 at an altitude of 1000 meters. An altitude loss of about 1500 meters and very much in line with a dogfight.
At 3:13 p.m., patrol no. 3, which had returned to a high position (about 3,000 m), was attacked by two FW 190s. This attack must match the first claim by Hans PFAHLER (No. 472). The latter having touched POZNANSKI for the first time, had to consider it destroyed (overclaimed). Then the French pilot dives and disappears in the clouds, certainly pursued by the enemy FW 190s. His disappearance must correspond to the victory (Nr 473) won by the Oberfeldwebel Hans PFALFER in the medeltrapez 45572.
According to Commander TULASNE's report, the fight lasted about ten minutes.
The attack of the newly formed DERVILLE MAHÉ patrol therefore takes place around 3:20 p.m. at the front line, it can only be the fight in sector 45522. The two yaks turn left to ward off the attack. MAHÉ sees DERVILLE's plane leave in the direction of the German lines, leaving a long trail of black smoke. 5 minutes later, the unteroffizier claims another victory in the Medeltrapez 45542. The most probable hypothesis is that he has just "completed" the Yak of DERVILLE.
Be that as it may, there is near certainty that at least two of the French pilots (BIZIEN and POZNANSKI)
fell around Krassilino airfield".

extract of aérofanzine n°1 p.ZZ

[@irnimal]

Going through 3 VA's Loss Records found something :
15 October 42
235 ShAP sent some Il-2s (probably a couple, not sure, haven't found Combat Reports) on an armed Recon. Mission of German troops, in the Nikitinka area (about 14km NW of Kholm-Zhirkovskiy, some 28km SE of Belyy), Smolensk Oblast. They lost 2 pilots.
Don't know the time of the mission, but if it coincides with the German claims, them they were victims of Ltn. Maximilian Mayerl [9/JG 51] and Fw. Günther Schack [7/JG 51], who claimed an il-2 apiece (their 32nd and 18th claims respectively). These were the only clains made in the area throughout the day.
- Politruk Petr Ivanovich Ushakov, Mia (Deputy Commander for Political Affairs)
- Leytenant Anatoliy Semenovich Il'yashenko, Mia.

[focusfocus]

Bonjour Laurent

Analyse intéressante,it also seems that the 3 victories claimed by Normandie are injustified

Cordialement