Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 6th February 2018, 09:12
Rikwink Rikwink is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Rikwink is on a distinguished road
Loss 16 december 1941 area Kiel

Hi is there any information known about a plane shot down on the 16th december 1941 (could also be 15th or 17th) in the area of Kiel.

I've got a plaque from marine flak abteilung 271 stationed in Kiel and dated 16.12.1941 On the plaque there's a unit crest in aluminium.I was told this crest was made from parts of the crashed airplane.

Hope you can help me with this one.
Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2018, 13:29
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,444
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: Loss 16 december 1941 area Kiel

I found this in the War Diary of German Naval Staff Operations Division, December 1941:
(extract from the entries on the 16th):
"Lively enemy air activity over the Dutch coast and over Emden, Wilhelshaven, and Cuxhaven. Vessels lying in the ports were attacked unsuccessfully. The naval bakery and rail installations at the ship-fitting shop in Wilhelmshaven were slightly damaged. Between three and four hundred buildings were damaged in Emden. Naval anti-aircraft artillery shot down one enemy plane."
The last line may refer to the claim by Marine Flak Abteilung 271.

This is what is written in the book "Bomber Command War Diaries" by Middlebrokk and Everitt:
"16/17 December 1941
83 aircraft - 57 Wellingtons, 14 Hampdens, 12 Whitleys - reported starting arge fires throughout the target area but the Wlhelmshaven diary records only "slight damage" and no casualties. No aircraft lost.

Minor operations: 40 aircraft to Brest - 22 bombing and 18 minelaying, 32 aircraft to Ostend, 14 to Dunkirk. 4 OTU sorties. 1 Whitley was lost from the Dunkirk raid."

The book above is usually only listing as losses the bombers that went missing, but for this night he listed only one of the two MIA aircraft for Bomber Command, two other being lost in crashes in England.
_ Whitley V Z7693 of 102 Sqn, target Dunkirk, hit by Flak and crashed in the sea, all five crew MIA and commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial
_ Wellington IC X9785 of 218 Sqn, target Brest, crash-landed in Dorset after engine failure, 1 wounded
_ Wellington IC R1064 of 304 (Polish) Sqn, target Ostend, presumed lost over the sea. all six crew lost, some bodies recovered and buried in France and Belgium
_ Wellington II Z8427 of 305 (Polish) Sqn, target Ostend, crashed on return in Lindholme circuit due to a faulty altimeter setting, 4 wounded.
Source: Bomber Command losses, 1941

The book Coastal Command losses 1939-1941 has one operational loss that day, the Hudson AM731 of 407 Sqn RCAF lost off Netherlands, all four crew lost, two buried in Netherlands, two on Runnymede Memorial.

From the above, it seems that British crew that night attacked mainly the wrong target (Emden rather than Wilhelmshaven) and so some may have reached Kiel area and be fired at by Marine Flak Abt 271, that filled a claim for a bomber shot down, but the Wilhelmshaven force lost no aircraft and it is difficult to believe that a bomber sent to Dunkirk or Ostend will finish over Kiel to return crashing off Netherlands or Belgium. But stranger things happened in WWII.

PS: nothing else to report on the 15th or 17th for activity in N Germany area
Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2018, 09:16
Rikwink Rikwink is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Rikwink is on a distinguished road
Re: Loss 16 december 1941 area Kiel

Thank you Laurent.
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Loss details required December 1941 Melvin Brownless Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 30th September 2014 15:05
Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941 Laurent Rizzotti Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 15 25th September 2014 00:12
P-51 43-24846 loss in Austria, 16 November 1944 Laurent Rizzotti Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 7th September 2012 17:51
201 Sqn Sunderland loss 3rd December 1941 fana Allied and Soviet Air Forces 1 27th July 2006 02:12
2./KG 28, December 1941 Michael Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 2nd October 2005 21:52

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:24.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018,