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  #11  
Old 30th December 2017, 11:15
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

F/O Fernow which may have been on a training mission , his P-38 is not
listed as a combat loss . A month later he would be MIA on a mission
to Munich due to what later on 82nd perceived as O2 problem . What is the
source of your info as into him considered as a combat loss or
ditch as of Aug 26,44 ? To recap 82nd did not lose any P-38's in Bulgaria
on Aug 26,44 or on the way back as result of Stoyanov actions as far as the
group history books and info is concerned .
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  #12  
Old 30th December 2017, 12:37
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/s...y/Aug1944O.htm
If you read my earlier post you will understand that I put it forward as being a possibility.
At least that was the intension. He force landed on the date you asked about.
He was of a Group involved in operations on that date.
So I put it to you that it is a possibility that he was involved, a/c damagedperhaps by enemy action and somehow managed to survive , return and force land/crash land.
Otherwise perhaps the pilot you refer too as claiming a P38/F5 on the date you give must have imagined it as there were no other losses other than those already noted in the thread as far as I am aware. 25th August '44 42-13309/Jensen, 6th, August '44, 42-67822 and 43-28529 both in the UK and 43-28795 in Manfredonia, Italy. Oh also there was the P-61, 42-5545, MACR 8706.
Alex
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  #13  
Old 30th December 2017, 13:54
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

According to my files Stoyanov was credited with damaging a Lightning on December 10, 1943 (no points), and shooting one down on January 10, 1944 (one point). The August 26, 1944 claim (one point) occurred at Pafla, Vrachansko (which is my transliteration of the Bulgarian, and could be wrong). I have not attempted to locate Pafla, Vrachansko.

So Stoyanov had encountered P-38s earlier, and would certainly be expected to be able to correctly identify them. So my guess at this point is that the date is wrong somehow. Perhaps Dénes can comment on the sources for this date. Because the only other conclusion I can see is that Stoyanov is lying. Either about the fact of a combat of any kind, or about the aircraft he shot down. If he had actually shot down a Russian aircraft (depending on where Pafla is) this might cause major problems, because I do not believe that Bulgaria was at war with Russia, although Russian forces were certainly very close to the Bulgarian border at this point. I cannot see any reason for Stoyanov to be lying about the fact of a combat. And as far as I know the Russians never flew the P-38 in combat, and only had access to a few "left lying around".

Enjoy!

Frank.
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  #14  
Old 30th December 2017, 15:24
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

I don't think Stoyanov lied, neither 15th AF lost a P-38 on that day nor F/O Fernow had
something to do with Stoyanov, also as of Aug 26,44 Russia was still at war with
Bulgaria . There is no need to mention that during WWII all sides runned into numerous errors
of this kind , therefore the likelyhood of an error is one possibilty.
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  #15  
Old 30th December 2017, 16:04
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

A.Smart according the link you provided Fernow incident was on 42-13199 95th FSQ and not
on 43-28795 97th FSQ which you stated initially .If you have the possibility to get a hold of
82nd FG history books then you will note Fernow's event was at Vicenzo the home
of that FG and was a local incident ,therefore this does not apply to the subject in
question.


0803 P-38G 42-13199 95FS 82FG 15 TAC 3 Fernow, Melvin L ITA Vincenzo
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  #16  
Old 31st December 2017, 01:33
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Your post does not make any sense, neither getting personal .
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  #17  
Old 31st December 2017, 02:12
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

440826 P-38J 43-28795 97FS 82FG 15 FL 5 Fernow, Melvin L ITA Manfredonia

Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 31st December 2017 at 16:47.
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  #18  
Old 31st December 2017, 04:36
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Alex, despite the probability that you have a vast amount of knowledge, a huge number of records, have made 2700+ posts and command respect in the forum, I would have thought asking a member for their name when they have not given it is out of order and may be interpreted as an attempt to ridicule the member.
Peter
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  #19  
Old 31st December 2017, 11:22
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Peter

Your head up is highly appreciated ! To return back to the original thread of Mr Denes Bernard ,
15th AF did not lose any P-38's or any P-51's on mission to Romania except this of Wise caused
by technical issues , Stoyanov did not lie but was wrongly credited with a P-38, F/O Fernow had
nothing to do with Stoyanov or the mission to Pipera and Otopeni . I recollect my past numerous
contacts with Charlie Pinson who was many years under the impression that two IAR-80 pilots brought
down his P-38 . A later deeper research concluded instead that a Luftwaffe NCO pilot was the
one who fired from his 6 o'clock position . These errors were human made rather lies and
therefore corrected by human throughout the years .

Happy New Year !
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  #20  
Old 31st December 2017, 16:38
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Hello Frank,
" The August 26, 1944 claim (one point) occurred at Pafla, Vrachansko (which is my transliteration of the Bulgarian, and could be wrong). I have not attempted to locate Pafla, Vrachansko."
I looked at Google maps and my own atlas index. The closest that I found was VRACHA.
This Vracha is or is near to a national park just north of the border with Greece.
I just wonder what the route the 82ndFG would have taken on the 26th.
Do you or anyone else have anything on their operational plan ( out and return ) that day ?
Alex
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