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Old 13th March 2018, 21:08
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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42-3030 confusion ?

Hello,

Re the loss of B17F, 42-3030.

Dick Drain has the a/c listed under 97th BG,
" Departed U.S, 4 Apr, 43.
Assigned 17 Apr, 43.
Condemned 8 Apr, 44.
Salvaged Overseas".

BUT

Joe Baugher has
(FA) lost 4 April, 1943, South Pacific.

And accideent report .com site has -
Marrakech, French Morocco - UK, MACR 5662.

Fold3 has the MACR,
It say's that the a/c was on a delivery Ferry flight from the USA via North Africa to the UK.
There seems one day delay in North Africa and a/c with five crew took off on the 4 the April,43 and was not seen again.
Presumably down in the sea somewhere between North Africa and St. Eval, Cornwall.

So how was the a/c assigned to the 97th BG after her disappearance ?

Alex
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Old 17th January 2019, 03:30
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: 42-3030 confusion ?

Hello, A new year , so anyone have any thoughts on this letter ?
Thanks
Alex
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Old 17th January 2019, 11:32
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: 42-3030 confusion ?

Alex

The USAAF cards can be quite tricky to read.
My interpretation of the card is this

Built under order number W535-ac-20291
received by USAAF at manufacturer's plant 23.12.1942
flown into Douglas Long Beach Modification Plant 23.12.1942
flown to Cheyenne, WY 18.1.1943
flown to Salina, KS 2.2.1943
flown to Memphis TN 19.2.1943
flown to Nashville, TN 21.2.1943 (It seems the transfer from Cheyenne to Nashville was handled by Mobile Air Depot Ferry Group)
assigned to 12th AF (MTO) 25.2.1943 with an expected delivery to point of receipt in North Africa 4.4.1943

After that the card (including the scribe) gets really confusing
line 1: GLEN 3 443 (possible meaning departed USA 4.3.1943 to North Africa)
line 2: GLEN 41743 41743 (possible meaning arrived North Africa 17.4.1943 and the data entered by the scribe the same day)
line 3: CON AFMSC GLEN 30304 844 (possible meaning Condemned 3.3 and the data entered 8.4.1944)
line 4: CON INVM GLEN 3030 7844 (possible meaning Condemned again - for different reasons 3.3 and data entered 8.7.1944)
under all this is written by hand 4.9.1944

It is very, very clear the scribe has NOT entered this data correctly, ie according to the rules stipulated

GLEN: Codeword for 12th AF
AFMSC: usually used when no details of what has happened causing aircraft to be condemned has reached the scribe
INVM: No idea

Cheers
Stig
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Old 17th January 2019, 15:06
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is online now
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Re: 42-3030 confusion ?

Hallo again Alex

I have checked a few B-17 sites, but none lists 42-3030 with 97BG.
Who is Dick Drain and is his info listed in a book or something?

One reason 97BG was involved could be that the aircraft was supposed to be assigned to the BG in question and/or the delivery was made by a crew already belonging to or was going to be assigned to the BG in question. Delivery flights were not only made by the Ferry Groups.

Looking at the card again, the digits 3030 on line 3 and 4 may of course belong to the aircraft's serial number, but if so, then the scribe was way, way out. Such details should never be written in that place and not in such a way what so ever!!

Looking at your other alternatives
1) You can forget about Baugher. Nothing on the card suggests any delivery to the South Pacific (code word should have been FULCRUM)

2) With regard to the MACR, I doubt the aircraft was on its way to the UK.
Nothing on the actual card suggests anything like that. Only GLEN is listed, never struck out or changed in any way. If aircraft had been re-assigned to 8th AF the code UGLY (and replaced by SOXO) was still in use early 1943.
Checking 42-3029 which also was assigned to GLEN, its destination was changed to UGLY/SOXO when under delivery.
Line 2 is very odd since it could also be interpreted as if the aircraft was delayed for some reason and did not depart until the 17th. Is it possible to write down exactly what the MACR says?

It is also very odd that the card itself was not updated until 1944, ie almost one year after aircraft had been lost.

Cheers
Stig
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