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  #1  
Old 8th December 2017, 13:05
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

Hello all,

I,am aware of the difficulty of losses of 1944 ,despite i would ask for help for the losses of 3 february 1944 .The area of interest is in the Groningen area -Northern part of Holland. From Meppen [Germany] to Dutch border .
On this day there was till today a unknown probably Fw-190 s/d in Gieten in rural area.According to police-report the pilot was FSA.
Would anybody have a list of losses for this day ?

Thanks in advance

Harrie
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Old 8th December 2017, 17:05
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

You can check the database here http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_summ_los...iew.asp?PAGE=1 for this date.

There are several losses for JG 1 especially, with two for I./JG 1 of which I don't know the meaning of the "loss cause code" (18 and 19), another of I./JG 1 without enemy action and two losses of II./JG 1 in air combat.

The JG 1 book by Mombeek list only two losses:
_ Gefr Bernhard Boose of 1./JG 1 was killed when his Fw 190 A-7 WNr 430175 "white 23" crashed near Ostbüren during a transfer flight.
_ Ofw Gerhard Fleeming of 9./JG 1 was killed when his Bf 109 G-6 WNr 410881 "Yellow 4" was shot down in an air battle and crashed near Wachtum.

So one loss for I./JG 1 and one for III./JG 1 in the book, compared to 2-3 losses for I./JG 1 and two for II./JG 1 in the Luftwaffe loss summary.
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Old 11th December 2017, 09:55
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

Goodday Laurent,

Thanks for help and the link get me a little closer ,the two losses you mentioned from Mombeek are well known to me.
The loss cause code,s are mystery and i can,t find them .
Anybody can help for explanation of the numbers ? It will be very helpful.
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Old 11th December 2017, 12:35
Stig1207 Stig1207 is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

I seem to remember Andreas Brekken explaining the numbers, the codes for losses. However, I can't find the post where he does so.
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Old 11th December 2017, 13:41
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udf_00 udf_00 is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_summ_los...subunit=&unit=

move the mouse over the category code and wait for the pop-up
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Old 11th December 2017, 15:26
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

Verlustursachen/loss categories 18 and 19

18 = Totalverlust durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet/Bodenverlust.
In English: destroyed on the ground (own war-territory) due to enemy action.

19 = beschädigt durch Feindeinwirkung auf eigenem Kriegsgebiet/Bodenverlust.
In English: damaged on the ground (own war-territory) due to enemy action.

Source: Ulf Balke "Der Luftkrieg in Europa" part 1 pages 437/438 or part 2 page 421.

Regards
Leo
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Old 11th December 2017, 15:28
Stig1207 Stig1207 is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

Something wrong with the '18' and '19' codes, though. IIRC, those weren't used.
The numbers 1-17 were categories involving enemy action and 20-23 for losses without enemy action.

Or maybe I was wrong
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Old 11th December 2017, 16:59
Merlin Merlin is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

The only loss for that day, which matches the description:

"On this day there was till today a unknown probably Fw-190 s/d in Gieten in rural area.According to police-report the pilot was FSA."

is a Bf 109G-6 from I./JG 3 which was lost that day in the Dutch - German border area. This one is only known from the summary list, no details for the aircraft or pilot were reported.

All other losses of that day happened much more to the east over German territory and that one from 9./JG 1 was completly destroyed during a belly landind near Wachtum.
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Old 12th December 2017, 10:16
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Re: Luftwaffe losses 3 Febr 1944

Hello all,
For Gerhard ,many thanks for making it clear of a Bf109G-6 instead a Fw-190 as also is mentioned in the dutch loss-register ,loss chart T3377A .The moderator can update.
The fighter was totally gone in the ground according the police-report ,later in the early 50,s there was a recovery by locals but failed .We found some shrapnel of it but can not make it out BF-109 or fw-190 untill now.
All thanks .
Regards harrie
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