Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18th August 2017, 06:28
Broncazonk's Avatar
Broncazonk Broncazonk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 475
Broncazonk is on a distinguished road
Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

What caused this prop-strike and nose-over?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geb8GXtqIMw

Different angle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnVAPfCgjxI

Were the late Mk Griffon-powered Spitfires THAT hard to handle on take-off?

1) The pilot was neutral on the elevator, but the speed was fairly low, so...

2) Was this caused by a soft runway?

3) Or were the brakes dragging? (Parking brake didn't fully release?)

Bronc
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18th August 2017, 13:25
dp_burke dp_burke is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dublin
Posts: 606
dp_burke is on a distinguished road
Re: Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

I am sure the French authorities will carry out a full investigation and that will be available on their website in due course.
__________________
regards
Dennis Burke
Foreign Aircraft in Ireland 1939-1945
http://www.ww2irishaviation.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18th August 2017, 14:06
Larry Larry is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Middlesex, England
Posts: 1,013
Larry is on a distinguished road
Re: Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

I'm appalled at the lack of motorised crash rescue and late arrival of the fire engine!

Those who ran from the crowd on to the runway were quite brave considering what might have happened if the fuel had exploded.
__________________
Larry Hayward
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18th August 2017, 16:23
Kutscha Kutscha is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,102
Kutscha
Re: Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

Spits were know for prop strikes on take off (very little clearance).

An old Spit pilot was telling 'stories' at a local air show and one of these was of delivering Spits to Egypt. A Polish WC took off and couldn't understand why the engine was running rough. Thought about landing but kept going. Turned out he had ground 3" or so off the end of the prop blades from a ground strike while taking off.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18th August 2017, 17:21
John Beaman John Beaman is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
Posts: 2,155
John Beaman is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

Which is why these valuable and rare a/c should not be flown.
It is obvious that the pilot raised the tail too quickly (above horizontal) and the result was inevitable.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19th August 2017, 01:30
Revi16 Revi16 is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,313
Revi16 is on a distinguished road
Re: Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry View Post
I'm appalled at the lack of motorised crash rescue and late arrival of the fire engine!

Those who ran from the crowd on to the runway were quite brave considering what might have happened if the fuel had exploded.
This wasn't an airshow, it was a simple fly-in at a small local airport that the Spitfire just happened to attend. That is why there wasn't any emergency equipment on the airfield.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19th August 2017, 02:01
Revi16 Revi16 is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,313
Revi16 is on a distinguished road
Re: Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beaman View Post
Which is why these valuable and rare a/c should not be flown.
It is obvious that the pilot raised the tail too quickly (above horizontal) and the result was inevitable.
Thankfully you are not in charge. The aircraft can be rebuilt.

The majority of Spitfires flying are "new" build to begin with. If there weren't flyers, there wouldn't be a demand to build them.

P9374
https://news.artnet.com/app/news-upl...7/spitfire.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6080/6...29041618_b.jpg
http://photos.plane-mad.com/43/large/43724.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19th August 2017, 02:05
Broncazonk's Avatar
Broncazonk Broncazonk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 475
Broncazonk is on a distinguished road
Re: Late Mk Griffon Spitfire Nose-over on Take-off

From, Handling Qualities of WW2 Fighters, given in March 2004, by Dave Southwood to the Flight Test Group of the Royal Aeronautical Society:

"The engine torque and propeller slipstream produce considerable effects and tailwheel aircraft are inherently unstable on the ground. Probably the greatest vice of the Spitfire is that it is very 'tail light' due to a short longitudinal moment arm of the CG from the mainwheels …. sharp brake inputs or large power increases without full aft stick inevitably cause the tail to leave the ground …

A particular problem can occur during engine checks at high power. The thrust line is above the mainwheels and produces a powerful nose down pitching moment that is opposed by the moment of the CG about the mainwheels and the aerodynamic down force on the tailplane and elevator due to propwash and any headwind component. If the tail should rise, closing the throttle will reduce the problematic nose down moment due to the thrust. However, it will also reduce the propwash over the tailplane and elevators, thus reducing the aerodynamic tail down moment and often making the tail rise even further.

Unfortunately, once the tail has started to rise in this situation there is often no recovery."


The pilot at the controls was Cédric Ruet, and rumor is, this was his very first "flight" in that aircraft.

Bronc
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hans Hahn Nokose Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 62 23rd June 2016 20:06
103 MU at Aboukir Aussie7 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 25 21st September 2010 11:39
Spitfire Histories Alex Smart Allied and Soviet Air Forces 16 13th April 2010 14:19
Thunderbolts and Mustangs versus the Jagdwaffe (split topic) Ruy Horta Allied and Soviet Air Forces 98 9th August 2007 17:22
The remarkable William Tex Ash, 24 March '42 Brendan Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 3 4th February 2005 19:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net