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  #21  
Old 22nd August 2007, 12:47
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Re: Top Jet Aces

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Originally Posted by NickM View Post
Well the war was nearly a decade long & both sides used Airpower extensively--Iraq probably MORE so given they had a steady source of planes & spare parts--which Iran probably didn't have QUITE as much; I guess you could say the Good Major had a 'target rich environment'

NM
If you have your own opinion, just write it, but do not say, what should I write.

After the Iraqi-Iranian war, many fellows said (without much available details), that the 'less-qualified' (or in even rude terms: stupid/dumb etc) Iranians were not able to maintain the power of their air force, especially the US types, so they scored nothing. When some more info become available, this opinon turned to be somehing different: scoring air victories with an F-14? Big deal...

Well, during the earlier conflicts and world wars, there were many easy pickings as well, as some of the Iranian F-14 air victories. The Iranian F-14's had some easy kills, of course (the powerful radar and weapon system of the F-14 caused a row of simply 'brutal' air victories, when the Iraqi pilots even didn't know, what happened with them, since the F-14's attacked them from very long distance, from over 50 km)
But the air war was not one-sided, Iraq got much more help from abroad (not just materials, but some help for better training and tactic for their pilots) The air fights were intensive just in periods of the war, so claiming a row of victories were not as easy (and after the first bad experiences, the Iraqi pilots many times tried to avoid the clashes with the F-14's)

I don't think, that 9 jet air victory is only to me a notable performance.

BTW the Iranians had even a pilot, who scored 5 confirmed kills with an F-5, which is very far from the F-14's performance (that particular pilot shot down the most succesful Iraqi pilot, who flew a MiG-25...)
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  #22  
Old 23rd August 2007, 07:24
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Top Jet Aces

Csaba:

I think you mis-understood me; I wasn't trying to denigrate your information, I was only observing that Iraq-Iran War was a rarity in modern age: a long term war of attrition between two conventional armies that featured an extensive air-war component;

Sorry for the misunderstanding;

NM
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  #23  
Old 23rd August 2007, 09:12
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Csaba B. Stenge Csaba B. Stenge is offline
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Re: Top Jet Aces

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Originally Posted by NickM View Post
Csaba:

I think you mis-understood me; I wasn't trying to denigrate your information, I was only observing that Iraq-Iran War was a rarity in modern age: a long term war of attrition between two conventional armies that featured an extensive air-war component;

Sorry for the misunderstanding;

NM
Nick,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I hope, once every details will be available from the Iranian F-14's - it is a great plane and was really succesful during that conflict.
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  #24  
Old 23rd August 2007, 16:40
NickM NickM is offline
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Re: Top Jet Aces

Csaba:

I'm wondering: Might you have the dates and details of the aerial vics that Iranian F-14 pilot is credited?

Also, I have seen a book, a while back about the Air War during the Iraq/Iran war...I forgot the actual title AND the authors names but what little I read when I leafed through it seemed quite high quality....

NM
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  #25  
Old 23rd August 2007, 21:30
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Csaba B. Stenge Csaba B. Stenge is offline
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Re: Top Jet Aces

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Originally Posted by NickM View Post
Csaba:

I'm wondering: Might you have the dates and details of the aerial vics that Iranian F-14 pilot is credited?

Also, I have seen a book, a while back about the Air War during the Iraq/Iran war...I forgot the actual title AND the authors names but what little I read when I leafed through it seemed quite high quality....

NM
Nick,

the asked book is:
Farzad Bishop-Tom Cooper
Iran-Iraq war in the air 1980-1988
It was published by the Schiffer in 2002

The acig site contains the known Iranian air to air claims as well:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_210.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_211.shtml
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  #26  
Old 17th May 2019, 20:44
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Re: Top Jet Aces

Good evening Gentlemen,

a combination the Me 262 top ace lists of Morgan/Weal and Kacha looks like this:

top Me 262 aces
rank/name/Me 262 score(total)
1. Welter 27(63)
2. Eder 24(78)
3. Schall 17(137)
4. Bär 16(221)
5. Rademacher 16(97)
6. Rudorffer 12(224)
7. Buchner 12(58)
8. Schnörrer 11(46)
9. Stehle 11(26)
10. Weber 10(13)
Only Welter and Eder have more jet claims than the top MiG aces Sutyagin (22) and Pepelyaev (19).

Michael
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  #27  
Old 18th May 2019, 07:20
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Top Jet Aces

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Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Good evening Gentlemen,

a combination the Me 262 top ace lists of Morgan/Weal and Kacha looks like this:

top Me 262 aces
rank/name/Me 262 score(total)
1. Welter 27(63)
2. Eder 24(78)
3. Schall 17(137)
4. Bär 16(221)
5. Rademacher 16(97)
6. Rudorffer 12(224)
7. Buchner 12(58)
8. Schnörrer 11(46)
9. Stehle 11(26)
10. Weber 10(13)
Only Welter and Eder have more jet claims than the top MiG aces Sutyagin (22) and Pepelyaev (19).

Michael
But the very second post in this thread de-bunks all that. It was an entered an entire 12 years ago. These "Top Aces" lists really teach us nothing
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  #28  
Old 18th May 2019, 10:33
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Re: Top Jet Aces

Post a list that tells us everything.
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  #29  
Old 18th May 2019, 12:36
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Top Jet Aces

As stated previously: These "Top Aces" lists really teach us nothing.

The worship of numbers written next to men's names is something aviation history moved on from the day we were able to compare both sides' records.
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  #30  
Old 18th May 2019, 13:28
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Re: Top Jet Aces

You as usual: quick in debasing others, unable to provide anything that's better.
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