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Old 16th April 2021, 18:52
egbert egbert is offline
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Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

On November 7,1941, at 8AM in the morning, Armeniya left Yalta with over 5,000 refugees and wounded soldiers. At 11:25AM, somewhere between Yalta and Gurzuf, the Luftwaffe caught up with the Russian ship (supposed to be marked as a hospital ship). Heinkel He-111H bombers dropped two torpedoes on the ship and sunk it within 4 minutes.

Anybody here has more information about the circumstances and the He 111 bombers involved?
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Old 16th April 2021, 19:46
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

The wreckage of the Armenia has been found.

https://en.armradio.am/2020/04/27/wr...the-black-sea/
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Old 16th April 2021, 20:09
egbert egbert is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

Yes I know, thanx anyway for the video.
I am mainly interested in all known or even speculated Luftwaffe aspects of the sinking
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Old 17th April 2021, 10:18
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

According to German wikipedia (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenija) the event is described in the KG 26 war diary. I don't have it so can't comment, but the site said the attack was launched by II/KG 26.

I did quick check of the book "Achtung Torpedo loss", the old KG 26 history book, but found nothing about this ship.

The Russian wikipedia also gives interesting details (including WWII Soviet original documents that you may find online).

Both conclude that the sinking is probably not a war crime. Well Germans did commit far enough proven warcrimes in Soviet Union without counting this one.

Edited: I have read that the fact that the ship was sunk by torpedoes or bombs is discussed. The quick sinking is probably due to a torpedo, and the low-level attack described on Russian wikipedis is also probably a torpedo one. Here is what was written in the Kriesgmarine "Kriegstagebuch der Seekriegsleitung 1939 - 1945. - Teil A ; Band 27. November 1941": "Im Kampfeinsatz gegen die Feindtransporte im Schwarzen Meer wurd südl. Jalta ein 8-10 000 t Dpfr. durch LT-Treffer versenkt, südl. Kertsch ein kleinerer Dampfer durch Bimben beschädigt."
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Old 17th April 2021, 11:27
egbert egbert is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

I found here
https://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/41-11.htm

that the He111 came from KG 28 not from KG 26

Besides the fact that I still look for KG 28 involvement, I'd like to state here, that the Russian Armenya was not classified a hospital ship.
1. Russia did not cooperate with the International Red Cross- they in fact officially refused axis (and allied) hospital ships being safe from Russian military actions. The Germans responded with same non-recognition of Russian transporters. Subsequently Russia never reported any own ships to IRC that supposed to be classified as hospital ship
2. The Armenya during the Crimea campaign was always used to transport combat troops, like the 157th InfanteryDivision (Schützendivision), and armament out of Sevastopol the preceding days , weeks and month before she was sunk
3. She was armed with 4 guns cal4.5cm
4. She always sailed under naval convoy protection except on her final voyage.
5. She did not represent a protected hospital ship under the Geneva Convention marked white hull, green stripe with red cross.

Last edited by egbert; 17th April 2021 at 16:18.
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Old 17th April 2021, 19:37
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

Quote:
Originally Posted by egbert View Post
I found here
https://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/41-11.htm

that the He111 came from KG 28 not from KG 26

Besides the fact that I still look for KG 28 involvement, I'd like to state here, that the Russian Armenya was not classified a hospital ship.
1. Russia did not cooperate with the International Red Cross- they in fact officially refused axis (and allied) hospital ships being safe from Russian military actions. The Germans responded with same non-recognition of Russian transporters. Subsequently Russia never reported any own ships to IRC that supposed to be classified as hospital ship
2. The Armenya during the Crimea campaign was always used to transport combat troops, like the 157th InfanteryDivision (Schützendivision), and armament out of Sevastopol the preceding days , weeks and month before she was sunk
3. She was armed with 4 guns cal4.5cm
4. She always sailed under naval convoy protection except on her final voyage.
5. She did not represent a protected hospital ship under the Geneva Convention marked white hull, green stripe with red cross.
This may help a tiny bit:

I./KG 28

Attack on the Soviet Union - Central Russia. (Jul 41 - Dec 41)
Jul – Sep 41: on arrival at Terespol, took part in the first night attack on Moscow (21/22 Jul), these continuing to the end of Jul. On 2 Aug transferred from Terespol to Bobruisk/C Russia and flew attacks on troop and supply trains, artillery positions and motor transport columns in the vicinity of Bakhmach, Konotop, Ovruch and Chernigov during Aug and Sep as the battered remnants of the Red Army withdrew East. No aircraft combat losses were reported during these two months of action, although there were several take off and landing accidents. From 23-27 Sep night raids were flown on Moscow. Meanwhile, 1.Staffel (Lufttorpedo) had been detached from the rest of the Gruppe and sent to Buzău/Romania for operations under Luftflotte 4 against Soviet Black Sea shipping off Odessa and around Crimea. (T-312 roll 1144¹; Ultra; LRs; Karlsruhe Collection; A.I.).
Oct – Nov 41: transferred from Bobruisk to Seshchinskaya on 10 Oct and flew attacks on marshalling yards and rail junctions at Kursk and Orel during early Oct. Night raids were flown on Moscow 12 and 28 Oct without loss. Night raids on Kashira/SSE of Moscow on 21 and 29 Nov each cost I./KG 28 one plane. Poor flying weather reduced operations during much of Nov. (Ultra; T-312 microfilms; Karlsruhe Collection; A.I.; LRs).

¹ Source NARA T-312 roll 1144 is the IV. Fliegerkorps Tagesmeldung that includes the torpedoing of the Armeniya.

L.
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Old 18th April 2021, 11:33
egbert egbert is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

Thanks a lot Larry, much appreciated
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Old 21st April 2021, 17:57
Denniss Denniss is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

LT-Treffer = Luftorpedo-Treffer = aerial torpedo hit
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Old 22nd April 2021, 09:24
igorrB igorrB is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

ARMENIA wasn't Hospital ship, she was "wounded transporter" armed with Flaks. She sail with escort of two MO-cutters in last voyage. There is German's (Luftwaffe) reports about this case on https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/ru/nodes/1-fond-500 (500-12452-0172). In Russia recently some people argued about bomb's hit in ship, not torpedoes. But there still no firm evidence against torpedo-version.
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Old 22nd April 2021, 11:16
egbert egbert is offline
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Re: Sinking of (hospital?) ship Armeniya by He 111

Igor has pointed into the right direction. Here are the relevant reports on sinking Russian ships near Crimea. All copies from above link, File 172, pages 112,144,145 and most importantly page 148:

09:24 German time, 2 torpedoes from single a/c against larger troup carrier, 40km south of Jalta
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