Seeking ID of German AF, possibly Breslau, where this StG77 funeral was being held circa Aug-Oct, 1939

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I'm trying to ID place, date and circumstances of this photo, which shows probably a funeral ceremony for someone from StG77, probably sometime in the August-October, 1939 period. The Ju87Bs in the background are either from the Geschwaderstab or II./StG77. This might be right after the Polish Campaign, but probably isn't later than the end of Oct., 1939. This looks like a well-developed German airbase. The building on the right is the edge of a large hangar. Who can ID this place, and hopefully the date and circumstances of the photo? The a/c in the far background has the insignia for either the Geschwaderstab (blue top) or II./StG77 (red top), but it appears to be unfinished.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-SR9...-SR9pKRb-M.jpg

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[Matti Salonen]

This seems to be possible:
1939-09-08, I/St.G 77, Ju 87B, Breslau, Beim Start abgestürzt. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Schuppe, Heinz, +
Bordschütze Gruber, Karl, +

Matti

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I've now received additional information on this photo from our EoE researchers and supporters. Similar photos from the same event were published in a German-language book which confirms that this is a photo of a funeral for an airman who was killed. This is reported to be Sadkow Airfield, at Radom, Poland. Stab, I and II Gruppe of StG77 were based at Radom from either 10 or 11 September 1939 until 29 September 1939. This information is missing from the StG77 section in the recent deZeng-Stankey book on Stuka Units. Apparently the Germans intended to seize this airbase quickly after the invasion, so they didn't destroy the facilities there during their initial air attacks, preferring to capture the airfield intact. StG77 subsequently operated from there for about two weeks during the last half of the Polish Campaign.

Can anyone confirm the location as Radom-Sadkow Airdrome, or possibly provide a date, or additional photos of this event? Who was the aircrew member (s) being buried? I'd particularly like to identify the Staffel of the Ju87B in the background that contains a unit insignia. Any more photos out there of this one? If we now have the location correct, it is unlikely that this is the incident described by Matti above.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[KrisJG3]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Can anyone confirm the location as Radom-Sadkow Airdrome, or ....
Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Here at link You can see GPS position:
http://www.lotnisko-radom.it.pl/

or present:
51°23'21"N
21°12'49"E
Radom
Polska/Poland


Old view of Airfield RADOM - SADKÓW bombed by German Luftwaffe in 1939 :
http://www.poszukiwanieskarbow.com/a...01939%2001.jpg
http://www.poszukiwanieskarbow.com/a...dkow%20CSB.jpg

"...RADOM/Sadkow - from 1927 airfield IV class, from 1938 airfield "LOPP" then passed to the "MSWojsk." or "MK", position of hangars and roads still the same, Fliegerhorst , Old: N51°23'30" E20° 13' 00" ..."
Source: http://www.poszukiwanieskarbow.com/a...azowieckie.htm


Airfield in present :
http://www.lotnisko-radom.it.pl/mapy/lotnisko.htm
MAP OF AIRFIELD RADOM-SADKÓW

I think control tower from Your photo is the same as here but another side of view:
http://www.poszukiwanieskarbow.com/a...dkow%20Twr.jpg
There is Polish text:
"...Wieża radomskiego lotniska została ponoć wybudowana przez Niemców. ..."
"...Control tower was probably made by German ..." --- (rebuild as they get airfield later ???)
Compare hight of control tower from right side on the picture:
http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-SR9...-SR9pKRb-M.jpg
But I am not 100% sure.

Look this photo :
http://weltkrieg2.de/Geschichte/Krie...ring-px800.jpg
with text in German:
"...
Photo/Bild: Der Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe, Hermann Göring, zu diesem Zeitpunkt im Rang eines Generalfeldmarschalls, gratuliert den Männern des I/StG77 in Radom (Polen) im September 1939 für ihre erfolgreichen Kampfeinsätze während der ersten Phase des Polen feldzuges. Andere höhere Luftwaffenbefehlshaber im Bildvordergrund sind: zweiter von links nach Göring, Generalmajor Wolfram von Richthofen, Kommandeur des Fliegerkorps zu welchem der Stuka-Verband gehört, vierter von links, Generalobert Erhard Milch als Generalinspektor der Luftwaffe und fünfter von links, Generalleutnat Hans Jeschonnek als Chef des Stabes der Luftwaffe. ..."


Source:

http://translate.google.pl/translate...ffe.htm&anno=2

So I think could be RADOM-SADKÓW (it is still the same Polish name)
germ.: BRESLAU = pol. WROCŁAW (this is another part of Poland)

[Matti Salonen]

Another alternative (I have no other St.G 77 loss before December):
1939-09-22, Stab St.G 77, Ju 87, Modlin, Flakbeschuß. Bruch ? %.
Olt Polt, Walter, +

Matti

[Larry Hickey]

Matti,

Our main Polish Campaign researcher for the "Eagles over Europe" prjeoct has suggested the same incident, which just fits the time frame for this to have been taken at Radom, before StG77 left to return to Breslau late in the PC.

This is a very likely candidate for the event in the photo. Other very poor photos from a German book (title unknown to me) may show two coffins being carried before the assembled members of the unit. They are taken from opposite directions, so maybe it is still only one coffin.

We've now confirmed that this is, in fact, at Radom, and probably on or within a day or two of 22.09.39. Major progress here. The important thing to me for color profiling purposes is that this proves StG77 was beginning to apply unit insignias by late in the PC, as evidenced by the plane in the background. I'm still trying to determine if any unit Ju87s applied the well-known Staffel insignias by the time that the PC began, or were these being applied in some Staffeln during the campaign. I have photos from other collections that show that unit insignias were apparently carried by some II./StG77 aircraft during the PC. I have nine color profiles for StG77 aircraft to create to represent the unit for Sept, 1939. I want to get this right.


I'm almost certain that the Geschwaderstab did not yet carry unit insignia at Radom, as I have good photos of S2+AA and S2+BA at Radom without any insignias on the starboard side. If anyone has further evidence about this issue, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I don't yet have absolute proof that any I./StG77 aircraft carried unit insignias during the PC. My present belief is that they didn't. Obviously interpreting exact dates for photos is a tricky business. Photos of dated crashed aircraft displaying their markings are sometimes the only way to know this for sure.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

[KrisJG3]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

....This is reported to be Sadkow Airfield, at Radom, Poland. Stab, I and II Gruppe of StG77 were based at Radom from either 10 or 11 September 1939 until 29 September 1939.

Yes , it true I think because one man said here:

"...(1161) Re: NIEUSTAJĄCY KONKURS (BEZ NAGRÓD) ALE Z SATYSFAKCJĄ z dnia 2008-09-28, 19:16 :Witam to jest Stukas (1/Stg77, S2+CH zniszczony w kolizji naziemnej 12.09.39) a zdjecie zostało zrobione w Radomiu. ..."
====
"...Re: Persistent CONTEST (NO MONEY) BUT SATISFACTION on 2008-09-28, 19:16: Hello this is Stukas (1/Stg77, S2 + CH destroyed in a collision terrestrial 12/09/39) and the photo was taken in Radom..."

Source:
http://www.mysliwcy.pl/forum/watki.p...otr&sg=1&s=305

You must read (after translation) this book about Airfield Radom Sadków in 1939:

„Lotnisko Radom-Sadków 1939” - author: Cezary Orlik

First page:
http://www.mysliwcy.pl/forum/watki.p...nie=radom&sg=1

If You have more question to author of book here is contact to him - I think this is the best person for this thema:

lotniskoradomsadkow@interia.pl

He has good collection of photos RADOM SADKÓW.

For English translation use web google translator:
http://www.mysliwcy.pl/forum/watki.p...nie=radom&sg=1

[Pesel##]

Hi Larry,
No doubts this is Radom-Sadkow. Both, the hangar and the building at the background, are still down there. Sorry I can't help in remaining part of your particular research.
Matti, this must be some rubbish with that Modlin. So-called airfield was nothing more than a "landing ground" in 1939. Re-established soon before Barbarossa (with Modlin fortress itself converted into hudge hospital), but again abandoned due to permanent "unfavorable" weather conditions. Especially after Eastern Front moved fast to the East. What the people are taking such a data from?

[Matti Salonen]

What is rubbish with Modlin? Do you mean, that there was no Flak at Modlin or what? This location (which is not called an airfield) is mentioned in Luftwaffe Verlustmeldung and I have no reason to suspect this document. Do you have a better location information for this loss?

Matti

[Pesel##]

Hi Matti,
Polish original reports mention 25-26 German aircraft downed over Modlin and other defence positions in the area. After post-war verification, only 6 Lw aircraft appeared to be actually destroyed. Others were damaged and repaired later on, but none on 22nd September. The Verlustmeldung sometimes determines the place of operation (target), rather than place where the aircraft received the deadly shot. The report you quote says: "Bruch ? %, Olt Polt, Walter, +". It's not a total loss. The distance from Radom-Sadkow to Modlin is some 130-140 kilometers. On 22.09.1939 the unit had to flew near a few well defended areas, which could damage or destroy the Ju-87 in subject. In conclusion: I haven't better location information for this loss, so do you. But I have no reason to belive it was exactly a Modlin, I rather doubt about it.