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| Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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#1
29th June 2016, 11:21
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Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
On this day, Fw Helmut Schiller of the recce unit 5.(F)/123 was shot down at Lomme near Lille in a Bf 109 G-4, 14909. However, the only claim I have near Lille is for a Fw 190 probable by 222 Sqn. Anyone have any suggestions?
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#2
29th June 2016, 16:48
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
Geez, Chris, at what time of the day? I am sure you are aware it was busy day due to Operation Starkey. If we are going with the engagement 222 put in a claim for, No.129 claimed three Fw.190's destroyed and damaging three others.
Stephen
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#3
29th June 2016, 17:03
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
Not as busy as some days (?) as I have 3 x Fw 190s dest, one prob and four damaged early morning and two Bf 109s destroyed near Ghent late afternoon. Only American claims I have are for 3 Fw 190s damaged 1800 hrs. Unless Matti can tell, German losses rarely note the time
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#4
29th June 2016, 17:10
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
We are talking about the Lille engagement, right, and not the others?
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#5
29th June 2016, 17:14
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
Stephen
As far as I can see, Ghent is too far away so this means morning engagement. Other AM claims apart from 222 say Dunkirk and Le Touquet which again are not near Lille. Looking at my 222 Sqn diary, the Germans engaged when 222 Sqn was SW of Lille and they headed back via Sangatte. No mention of 109s, just 190s
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#6
29th June 2016, 17:23
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
According to radar reports the Luftwaffe did put up a fair number of aircraft but I do have the USAAF claiming a probable Fw.190 and two damaged during their attack on Amiens/Glisy, and you are right, the only 109s claimed that day were by No.421 RCAF south of Ghent.
Is it possible your 109 was shot down by flak? Stephen
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#7
29th June 2016, 17:29
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
Mind you, 65 Squadron claimed a Fw.190 as damaged south Dunkirk.
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#8
29th June 2016, 17:29
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
Records say enemy action but could it have been blue-on-blue I wonder. Howdever, from what I can see there was just the one German claim....and Blue 2 was lost
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#9
29th June 2016, 18:05
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
Other incidents to ponder...two Mustangs of No.414 RCAF Squadron caused a bit of damage to Douai A/D and Cassel and were then pursued by two determined 109s, and later in the day W/C Charles, leading 616 on an ASR were attacked by 8 Fw.190s. He destroyed 1 and claimed 1 damaged.
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#10
29th June 2016, 18:10
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Re: Allied Claims near Lille 31 Aug 43
616 Sqn-related combat was over Brittany so it looks like it will remain a puzzle
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