losses of Ju.87 and Hs.126 on 22/05/40

[focusfocus]

Hello

What are the actual losses in Ju.87 and Hs.126 that day?

British claims:
Four Ju.87 claimed shot down +two prob.by 151°Sqd (Merville)
Six Ju.87 claimed shot down +three prob.by 145°Sqd (St Omer)

Seven Hs.126 claimed shot down +one prob. by 56°,213° and 242°Sqd (Arras-Cambrai)

Source:Twelve days in May

French claims:
8 Ju.87 claimed shot down by GC II/3 (Arras-Peronne-Solesmes-Roquetoire)
Two Hs.126 claimed shot down by GC II/3 (Ham-Sains-en-Gohelle)

Source:New book :"Le Groupe De Chasse II/3" septembre 1939-juin 1940

Total: 18 Ju.87 shot down (+Five prob.) and Nine Hs.126 (+one prob.)

According to my sources, seems is BIG overclaiming (French and British)

Someone has an idea?
Thanks in advance

Michel

[Matti Salonen]

I have only the following due to enemy action:
2.(H)/23 - 1 Hs 126
4.(H)/31 - 1 Hs 126
9./St.G 2 - 1 Ju 87 B
Stab/St.G 2 - 1 Ju 87 B
4./St.G 77 - 4 Ju 87 B
2./St.G 186 - 1 Ju 87 B
3./St.G 186 - 1 Ju 87 B

Matti

[focusfocus]

Thanks Matti.

"At first glance",this seems like a big overestimate....where at best a double claim between British and French.

Is there any more precision;place of fall...time ?

Michel

[Matti Salonen]

1940-05-22, 2.(H)/23, Hs 126, Planques bei Allonville
Beobachter Olt Schumann, Joachim, +
Im Luftkampf abgeschoßen. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-22, 4.(H)/31, Hs 126, Lambus, Allonville
Flugzeugführer Rische, Hans, +
Beobachter Olt Nogai, Wilhelm, +
Absturz. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-22, Stab St.G 2, Ju 87 B, Aumerval, 17 km westsüdwestlich Béthune
Notlandung infolge Jägerbeschuß. Bruch ? %.
1940-05-22, 9./St.G 2, Ju 87 B, Helfaut, 10 km westlich Roquetoire (Camberny), 15 km südwestlich Hazebrouck
Flugzeugführer Lt Meyr, Peter, +
Bordfunker Uffz Ernst, Richard, +
Absturz. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-22, 4./St.G 77, Ju 87 B, Nördlich Arras
Fw Fischlein, Franz, verletzt
Uffz Finzel, Hermann, gefangen
Absturz um 20.30 Uhr. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-22, 4./St.G 77, Ju 87 B, Saint-Omer
Fw Mutter, Friedrich, +
Uffz Brandt, Ludwig, gefangen
Absturz um 20.30 Uhr. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-22, 4./St.G 77, Ju 87 B, Nördlich Arras
Flugzeugführer Uffz Reichart, Helmut, gefangen
Bordfunker Lt Kindermann, Gerhard, gefangen
Absturz durch Jäger um 20.30 Uhr. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-22, 4./St.G 77, Ju 87 B, Rocroi, 23 km nordwestlich Charleville-Mézières
Fw Pawelka, Fritz, verletzt
Bruchlandung um 20.30 Uhr infolge Feindeinwirkung. Bruch 10...60 %.
1940-05-22, 2./St.G 186, Ju 87 B, Arras
Flugzeugführer Fw Bartsch, Walter, verletzt
Bordfunker Uffz Philipp, Walter, verletzt
Bruchlandung infolge Jägerbeschuß. Bruch 100 %.
1940-05-22, 3./St.G 186, Ju 87 B, Zwischen Arras und Agnez
Flugzeugführer Lt.d.R. Blumers, Otto, verletzt
Bordfunker Uffz Wenzel, Gerhard, +
Nach Luftkampf mit Jägern brennend notgelandet. Bruch 100 %.


Matti

[Andy Mitchell]

Guys,

For the recce planes the following is from Peter Cornwell's "Battle of France Then and Now"

2.(H)/23 Henschel Hs126. Shot down by No. 56 Squadron Hurricanes during observation sortie, crashed and burned out at Bucamps. north of Hesdin. 2,15 p.m. Oberlt F. J. Schumann killed. Aircraft a write-off.

4.(H)/31 Henschel Hs126. Shot down by No. 56 Squadron Hurricanes during observation sortie and crashed at Lambus. west of Hesdin. 2.15 p.m. Oberlt W. Nogai and Oberfw H. Rische killed. Aircraft a write-off.

Best Regards

[Matti Salonen]

Thanks Andy for additional info. Unfortunately I don't have that book.

Matti

[Andy Mitchell]

Matti,

Here are the Ju 87 Losses from the same source for this date

lll./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Collided with aBf109 of 2./JG51 on take-off from Guise. Crew unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

9./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes south-east of Arques and crashed at Roquetoire 7.25 p.m. Possibly one of those claimed by F/L Boyd of No. 145 Squadron. Lt P. Meyr and Uffz R. Ernst killed. Aircraft a write-off.

2./StG77 Junkers Ju87B-l. Crashed on take-off from Lippstadt on ferry flight, cause unknown. Uffz R. Ihle died of injuries. Uffz F. Rebholz (l./StG77 mechanic) badly injured, admitted to hospital. Aircraft a write-off.

4./StG77 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes during attack on roads cast of St Omer and crashed south of Cassel 7.30 p.m.
Possibly one of those claimed by S/L Donaldson of No. 151 Squadron. Lt G. Kindermann and Uffz H. Reichart believed baled out and captured unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

4./StG77 Junkers Ju87B. Crash-landed on return to Rocroi badly damaged by Hurricanes during attack on roads east of St Omer 7.30 p.m. Possibly one of those claimed by P/O Hamar of No.151 Squadron. Fw F. Fischlein
wounded. Aircraft damaged but repairable.

4./StG77 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes during attack on roads east of St Omer 7.30 p.m. Possibly that claimed by Sgt Atkinson of No. 151 Squadron. Uffz F. Mutter killed. Fw F. Pawelka badly wounded. Aircraft a write-off.

4./StG77 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down by Hurricanes during attack on roads east of St Omer 7.30 p.m. Possibly that claimed by F/O Milne of No. 151 Squadron. Fw L. Brandt and Uffz H. Finzel believed baled out and captured unhurt. Aircraft a write-off.

I.(St)/TrGr.186 Junkers Ju87B. Forced-landed near Arras damaged in combat after attack on columns north of Cambrai 5.15 p.m. Possibly that attacked by Capt Clausse (Commandant} and Sgt Killy of 4eme escadrille of GC II/3. Crew unhurt. Aircraft a write-off. (amended per Bertrand H. comments)

2.(St)/TrGr.186 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down incombat with GC II/3 following attack oncolumns north of Cambrai and crash-landedsouth-cast of Arras 5.20 p.m. Possibly one of those claimed by Sgt Tourne. Fw W. Bartsch
slightly wounded in head and burned. Uffz W. Philipp also wounded and burned. Aircraft a write-off.

3.(St)/TrGr.186 Junkers Ju87B. Shot down in combat with GC II/3 following attack on columns north of Cambrai and crash-landed on fire at Duisans between Arras and Agnez 5.20 p.m. Possibly that claimed by Cmdt
Morlat (Commandant de Groupe). Uffz G. Wenzel killed. Lt O. Blumers badly wounded in back, evacuated to hospital in Aachen. Aircraft a write-off.

Eight Ju87s and two Hs126s were claimed destroyed in this action, these claims being more accurately assessed later as two confirmed, five probables, and one damaged.

Hope that this helps.

[Matti Salonen]

Andy, thanks again for very useful corrections. Sorry, if my info has mislead somebody, but I'll try to do my best.

Matti

[Bertrand H]

Hi,

To be precise

read GC II/3 rather than GC 11/3

read 4eme escadrille of GC II/3 rather than GC 4/3 which does not exist....

HTH

Bertrand

[Andy Mitchell]

Bertrand,

Many thanks for the corrections have incorporated them in the post.

Other than 4eme escadrille of GC II/3 rather than GC 4/3 they were down to missed OCR issues.

Matti,

Hope that the additional info is of assistance. Your detailed info is always gratefully received.

Best Regards