Opinions please (impact Allied fighter bombers on D-day)

[Rich47]

I'd like opinions on the impact of the Allied fighter bombers in the battle for France, D-day on, in 1944.

Thank you

[drgondog]

I'll take a position on this subject... the combination of RAF, 8th AF and 9 AF fighter bombers in the Normandy campaign were crucial in several categories.
1. They denied rail and road traffic mobility to both resupply forward positions and/or enable orderly retreat as the German army was pushed back..
2. They put heavy pressure on entrenched forward positions, destroying troops, tanks and armored vehicles. Many Panzer IV's were destroyed for example.
3. They denied any hope of Luftwaffe tactical air from becoming even a presence, much less effective. For example the Luftwaffe sent 15 Ju 87's to the beach on June 6 and the 355th FG wiped out the group completely
4. They were a bitter psychological reminder to the troops on the ground that they would not enjoy such air support and that they were left strictly to the inventory (ammo/food/armor) that they started with on June 6.
5. They put so much pressure on France based Luftwaffe airfields that they became ineffective against the strategic air campaign directed toward German targets.

I'm sure other will have a better opinion, but hopefully is a start.

Regards,
Bill Marshall

[Jon]

I have read one account of German tank crew POWS in British hands being moved back from the front actually soiling their trousers when a flight of RAF Typhoons flew over. The Brits said they were terrified beyond belief, just at the sound as they flew past.

Drgonag is correct with all his points, in particular the RAF Typhoon was greatly feared by the Panzer crews, but all the RAF and USAF fighter bombers or just fighters on patrol reduced massivley the movement of troops and supplies towards the front.

It was not uncommon for a single soldier to attract the attention of a straffing attack and again i remember reading a Spitfire pilots account of diving on a single German soldier on a bike in Northern France, as the pilot opened fire the German in a futile but natural act raised his arm to ward of the 20mm canon shells, the pilot said that is the one act he wishes he never did and obviously still haunted him when he wrote the story down.

I feel that without the allied Fighter Bomber D Day would have failed, certainly without the Allied Fighter bomber D Day would not have happened.

[Franek Grabowski]

Actually, assesment was done at the end of Normandy Campaign and it was found that damage inflicted was not very impressive. This is also conclusion of Zetterling's book covering the German side. Nonetheless psychological as well as reconnaissance role cannot be underestimated.

[Jon]

Hi Franek.
Yes you are correct regards the losses to armour these were actually very small against the claims of the Allied pilots.
However the knowledge that at any time you could come under direct attack from the air, aiming at you, rather than just bombing the area from a great height had a massive effect of the German forces.

The "Battle of the Bulge" was only started when cloud cover was low enough to hamper the allied fighter bombers. For a major attack such as this to hinge on the weather for this reason, shows exactly to what extent the German high command feared the Typhoons and Thunderbolts.

[drgondog]

I have had the opportunity to discuss the effect of free-ranging fighters behind German lines with more than a few knowledgable gentlemen on the other side.

Without going to the trouble of extracting General Galland's exact quotes which are in my book, paraphrased they go like this:
1. The effect of particularly the Mustang from March 1944 in dropping to the deck on the way home, strafing airfields, trains, barges and road traffic was devastating to the Luftwaffe - often preventing orderly take off and assembly to meet daylight bomber attacks and often wreaking havoc on tired pilots attempting to land often damaged a/c. Galland was very strong on this factor preventing him from getting large concentrations of fighters often enough in a localized space where he would have significant superiority and be able to do great damage.

2. The shooting up of trains and road and barge traffic had a more sinister effect to Germany's successful de-centralizing industry, particularly aircraft. The achilles heel was bringing sub assemblies by surface traffic which often came under attack somewhat offset the difficulties the Heavy bombers had in dealing with much de-centralization by not being able to destroy several large concentrations. In addition many repairable and repaired fighters returning from maintenance facilities via flatbed trucks were once again damaged or destroyed in such attacks

The above comments were made specifically to my question "How did the very large tactical "Footprint" of the Mustang cause difficulties to the Luftwaffe after Doolittle encouraged 8th AF Fighter Command to go on the offensive".

Remember, these attacks were ranging from Munich to Berlin months before the invasion.

Independent on whether the low level strafing attacks did as much damage as claimed, the order of magnitude of 5,000 German a/c destroyed on the ground matched the number destroyed in the air by the Mustang - and we haven't even touched on the terrible damage inflicted by the Typhoons and Thunderbolts in close proximity to the front lines in the true Fighter Bomber role.

The Falaise Pocket certainly illustrated the terrible effect of such low level attacks by the 'Jabo's'.... and the psychological effects of having to plan logistics and movement of critical supplies only at night reduced much of the German Army's effectiveness at the point of attack.

[Franek Grabowski]

Jon
I suppose in Ardennes Germans simply feared of being detected and it was the main reason to atack in poor weather to achieve maximum surprise.
Bill
Personally, I am very sceptical to any Galland's quotes. That is one thing. Another is, that no doubt Mustang won the airwar for Allies due to its superior range (may we call it range in terms of 1940s?) .
We also should be very cautious in regard of what was claimed and what was actually achieved. I am afraid that this was never a subject of serious research, although perhaps there is something in various USAF studies.
Finally, Normandy. A friendly fighter pilot who flew several dive bombing sorties, noted that Mustang accelerated too fast to be effective bomber. Other aircraft were not much better, so we may say that in general bombs were not effective. Rockets were badly inaccurate against ground targets, so only guns remain. Indeed it was most accurate weapon but no aircraft in Normandy had effective guns for ground attack.
On the other hand it must be said that in general aircraft of WWII period were not effective against small, moving military targets, at least in modern terms.
Certainly it was not that hopeless on the other side, as the weapon has been developed. So we should neither overestimate or understimate it.
Best wishes

[Jon]

As Franek has already said the psychological impact on the German forces was immense, this throughout history has been a weapon just as much as any arrow sword or bomb.
Also knowing that your only defense against this type of attack was down to light AA ( fantastic as it was ) with no squadron of FW190's about to turn up and save the day must also have added to the psychological impact.

Am i correct in saying that 8 60 pound rockets from a Typhoon was the same as a broadside from a light cruiser ?

If so imagine this multiplied to a Squadron size.......directed at you !

[drgondog]

Franek - why would you discount Galland's opinions? He certainly had the responsibility for Luftwaffe Fighter Arm mission and results until relieved and certainly had the overall perspective of the relative strengths and weaknesses of Luftwaffe vs 8th, 9th, 12th and 15th AF on the Western front?

Whose opinion would you value more highly with respect to these questions?

Regards,

Bill

[odybvig]

Gentlemen

The air activity over Normandy was due to the hard lession learn during the Dieppe raid, where Lw more or less won the battle

Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig