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  #11  
Old 23rd November 2017, 14:56
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

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Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
Hi Guys

The P-47 pilots story makes sense, though I believe Steinhoff was informed that Lützow in his inexperience with the jet flew through the B-26 formation straight into the ground, seems they thought he misjudged both speed and ability to pull-up. Could be the P-47 pilot fired on an aircraft already going down, or as his comrades didn't believe was just pulling-out of the dive.

Steinhoff mentioned that Lützow hadn't flown combat for three years, and was rather afraid.

Johannes
Poor Günther! I wonder whether it was a deliberate attempt to get rid of him for some reason, or whether somebody just came up with the stupid idea of making him fly after a three-year break...
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  #12  
Old 23rd November 2017, 15:37
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

To post #9:
Hello Michel,

the 17th BG/34th BS lost two B-26 on 24 April 1945 in the area Schwabmünchen:
B-26 C-45-MO 42-107729 „Stud Duck“ and B-26 B-50-MA 42-95987 „Yo-Yo Champ“.

The 42-107729 was hit by a Me 262 with severe damage to it’s vertical stabilizer and rudder. It also suffered hits in the waist position and aft bomb bay (MACR 14166).

The 42-95987 was hit by a Me 262 in the forward bomb bay – there was no collision – and blew up in mid-air. The left wing was blown off at the engine nacelle and the nose compartment was blown off (MACR 14165).

The B-26 B-45-MA 42-95786 17th BG/34th BS „Skipper“ was lost on 23 March 1945.The target was Heidelberg, it was hit by flak and crashed near Hockenheim (MACR 14038).

Regards
Leo
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  #13  
Old 23rd November 2017, 17:05
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Nick Beale Nick Beale is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

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Originally Posted by Teresa Maria View Post
Poor Günther! I wonder whether it was a deliberate attempt to get rid of him for some reason, or whether somebody just came up with the stupid idea of making him fly after a three-year break...
Reading "The First and the Last" it sounded to me as if Adolf Galland's clique realised their glory days were over and wanted to give it one last try, despite several of them being physically unfit, mentally burnt out or long out of practice.
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  #14  
Old 23rd November 2017, 20:41
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

I looked at a map of Schrobenhausen and see that there are two big rivers, one being the Danube, with lots of lakes in the area. All crash sites have been registered postwar. Even if the Me-262 dived straight into the ground, there would be a huge impact crater and parts of aircraft scattered about, which would have been investigated by the local police.

I have heard rumors that Lutzow went down into the Danube. Since his wreckage has NOT been found on land, it seems that it went into a body of water.

He was one of the great fighter/leaders in the Luftwaffe and I hope that someday, his wreckage site can be discovered.
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  #15  
Old 23rd November 2017, 23:54
John Manrho John Manrho is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Not sure why you believe that Lutzow would have been found if he crashed on land......just compare Bodenplatte losses which I studied for many years. Of 143 KIA pilots (single engined) some 55 are still listed as MIA and have no known grave. When I started my research this number was 63....meaning that I could solve these 8 cases as the pilots were buried as unknowns and I could proof their identity.

Of the 55 MIA at least 95% crashed on land......

Regards,

John
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  #16  
Old 24th November 2017, 18:19
Luftwaffle8 Luftwaffle8 is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

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Originally Posted by John Manrho View Post
Not sure why you believe that Lutzow would have been found if he crashed on land......just compare Bodenplatte losses which I studied for many years. Of 143 KIA pilots (single engined) some 55 are still listed as MIA and have no known grave. When I started my research this number was 63....meaning that I could solve these 8 cases as the pilots were buried as unknowns and I could proof their identity.

Of the 55 MIA at least 95% crashed on land......

Regards,

John
Because tenacious researchers like you just keep at it for years like cold case police detectives who simply will not give up!!! It's that simple.
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  #17  
Old 25th November 2017, 02:41
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

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Originally Posted by Nick Beale View Post
Reading "The First and the Last" it sounded to me as if Adolf Galland's clique realised their glory days were over and wanted to give it one last try, despite several of them being physically unfit, mentally burnt out or long out of practice.
Nick,

Steinhoff's "The Last Chance" also gives this impression so there is a lot of concurrence between the two memoirs, which really lends credence to your assertion
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  #18  
Old 25th November 2017, 03:00
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottler View Post
To post #9:
Hello Michel,

the 17th BG/34th BS lost two B-26 on 24 April 1945 in the area Schwabmünchen:
B-26 C-45-MO 42-107729 „Stud Duck“ and B-26 B-50-MA 42-95987 „Yo-Yo Champ“.

The 42-107729 was hit by a Me 262 with severe damage to it’s vertical stabilizer and rudder. It also suffered hits in the waist position and aft bomb bay (MACR 14166).

The 42-95987 was hit by a Me 262 in the forward bomb bay – there was no collision – and blew up in mid-air. The left wing was blown off at the engine nacelle and the nose compartment was blown off (MACR 14165).

The B-26 B-45-MA 42-95786 17th BG/34th BS „Skipper“ was lost on 23 March 1945.The target was Heidelberg, it was hit by flak and crashed near Hockenheim (MACR 14038).

Regards
Leo
Hi Leo,

What can you tell us about B-26C-45-MO 42-107593 of 34th BS, 17th BG, crew of 1/Lt. Robert M Johnson all KIA?
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  #19  
Old 25th November 2017, 14:22
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Hello Nick,

the 42-107593 of 323rd BG, 455th BS was lost on 4 April 1945 (MACR 13837).

On 7 April 1945 T/Sgt J.D. Wells, a Bomb-Toggler, ASN 14078867, made the following statement concerning the mission of 4 April 1945:
„… We were over the target at 1104. The formation turned right on a heading of 350°. At 1113 we turned right on a heading of 164°, which took us to the primary target. We dropped at 1119. The target was completely clouded over and no results were observed. There was no flak.

Two twin engined fighters attacked out of the clouds below at 1133. Approximately two minutes later the same two fighters made another attack. Both passes were made at the high and low flights of Box I. Hits were scored on the formation on the second pass, but all aircraft remained in formation. On the first pass three aircraft were hit bad enough to leave the formation. The following results were observed. Aircraft 42-107593, which was flying in No. 6 position oft he low flight went straight down thru the clouds. The aircraft was not on fire when last observed.“

Regards
Leo
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  #20  
Old 27th November 2017, 07:46
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Oberst Gunther Lutzow's fate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottler View Post
Hello Nick,

the 42-107593 of 323rd BG, 455th BS was lost on 4 April 1945 (MACR 13837).

On 7 April 1945 T/Sgt J.D. Wells, a Bomb-Toggler, ASN 14078867, made the following statement concerning the mission of 4 April 1945:
„… We were over the target at 1104. The formation turned right on a heading of 350°. At 1113 we turned right on a heading of 164°, which took us to the primary target. We dropped at 1119. The target was completely clouded over and no results were observed. There was no flak.

Two twin engined fighters attacked out of the clouds below at 1133. Approximately two minutes later the same two fighters made another attack. Both passes were made at the high and low flights of Box I. Hits were scored on the formation on the second pass, but all aircraft remained in formation. On the first pass three aircraft were hit bad enough to leave the formation. The following results were observed. Aircraft 42-107593, which was flying in No. 6 position oft he low flight went straight down thru the clouds. The aircraft was not on fire when last observed.“

Regards
Leo
Thanks, Leo!
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