Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd April 2019, 21:57
Monaco Monaco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 246
Monaco is on a distinguished road
A low but reliable soviet ace pilot

On 01.05.44 St.Lt. Aleksandr Dmitrievich Karpov of P-40 Kittyhawk-equipped 30 ORAE VVS-ChF was credited with 1 Ju.52 s/d in the Evpatoriya area for his 5th personal victory. He scored a total of 5+1 according M. Bykhov.

Does anyone have details on a Ju.52 lost on 1 May 1944 in this area (other soviet pilots claiming there on this day)?

Thanks in advance!

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4th April 2019, 19:28
milanbencek milanbencek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Liptovska Kokava/SLOVAKIA
Posts: 54
milanbencek
Re: A low but reliable soviet ace pilot

5/1/44 2. TG 2 F Cap Hersons (10 km südwestl.) Absturz brennend ins Meer infolge Jägerbeschuß Ju 52 /3m 501208 I. 100 Ofw. Lövenich, Christian vm. Ostfront (Lfl.4) (Bf) Ofw. Unger, Erich [vm.] / (Bw) Uffz. Semlitsch, Josef [vm.] / (Bs) Ogfr. Brümmer, Richard [vm.] 4-0-0-0
__________________
Milan Bencek, SLOVAKIA
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4th April 2019, 21:10
Monaco Monaco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 246
Monaco is on a distinguished road
Re: A low but reliable soviet ace pilot

Thank you very much Milan,

this could be the victim of Karpov. It seems, that all his victories are corresponding with german records. If you´re interested I send you a PM.

Cheers

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4th April 2019, 21:34
milanbencek milanbencek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Liptovska Kokava/SLOVAKIA
Posts: 54
milanbencek
Re: A low but reliable soviet ace pilot

Sure
__________________
Milan Bencek, SLOVAKIA
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5th April 2019, 10:02
Monaco Monaco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 246
Monaco is on a distinguished road
Re: A low but reliable soviet ace pilot

Hi Milan, why not sharing with all that regularly contribute to this forum:
On 16.09.43 Ml.Lt. Aleksandr Dmitrievich Karpov (5+1) of P-40 Kittyhawk-equipped 30 ORAE VVS-ChF was credited with 1 Bf.110 s/d in the Anapa area for personal victory No.1.
This could be:
16.09.1943 Küstenfl.St. Krim lost Bf.110F-2 Wnr.5045 „1K+CU“ südlich Noworossijsk - Absturz in See nach Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %; LF.4.

On 06.10.43 Ml.Lt. Aleksandr Dmitrievich Karpov (5+1) of P-40 Kittyhawk-equipped 30 ORAE VVS-ChF was credited with 1 „Hamburg“ (= Bv.138) s/d in the Krym area for personal victory No.2.
This could be:
On 06.10.43 1./SAGr.125 reported Bv.138C1 „7R+HH“ Wnr.130110 s/d by soviet fighters (Kittyhawks) in the sea zone off Jalta after contact with 3 russian destroyers (destroyer leader Charkow, destroyers Besposhchadny & Sposobny) at 08.15h; 2 crewmembers baled out and were saved by destroyer Sposobny though later died, when that was sunk. All crewmembers were posted MIA: Hptm. Hans Crömer (B), Lt. Harry Kremer (FF), Ofw. Hubert Schwippert (Bm), Uffz. Jacob Burens (Bf), Uffz. Gerhard Biskup (Bs) all MIA.

On 13.03.44 St.Lt. Aleksandr Dmitrievich Karpov (5+1) of P-40 Kittyhawk-equipped 30 ORAE VVS-ChF was credited with 1 Do.24 seaplane s/d for personal victory No.3 and 1/2 Do.24 shared s/d with Kaptitan I.T. Marchenko in the Ochakov area in two sorties.
This could be:
On 13.03.44 8. Seenotstaffel lost Do.24T3 „DJ+ZG“ Wnr.0081 s/d in Pl.Q. 0623/34 Ost by soviet fighters on a sea escort mission from Sevastopol to Odessa with the whole crew MIA: Uffz. Heinz Kluck (FF), Uffz. Hans Görtz (B), Uffz. Gerhard Klimke (Bf), Ofw. Heinz Engmann (Bm), Uffz. Günther Köpp (Bm), Fw. Martin Starke (Bs) & Oberarzt Dr. Lampersleiben (San) MIA.
On 13.03.44 8. Seenotstaffel lost Do.24T3 „KO+JP“ Wnr.3266 s/d in Pl.Q. 0623/34 Ost by soviet fighters on a sea escort mission from Sevastopol to Odessa with the whole crew MIA: Uffz. Ludwig Klein (FF), Uffz. Rolf Conrad (B), Uffz. Erich Siedlaczeck (Bf), Fw. Ernst Gienke (Bm), Uffz. Ernst Hübner (Bm), Gefr. Ottmar Scharrer (San) MIA.

On 13.04.44 Ml.Lt. Aleksandr Dmitrievich Karpov (5+1) of P-40 Kittyhawk-equipped 30 ORAE VVS-ChF was credited with 1 „Hamburg“ seaplane (= Bv.138) s/d in the Sevastopol area for personal victory No.4.
This could be:
On 12.04.44 at 17.01h Aufkl.Fhr.Schw. meer reported Bv.138C1 „7R+BH“ WNr.130185 of 1./SAGr.125 lost in Qu.5475, probably through enemy fire, the crew with Lt. Gerhard Loy (B), Fw. Kurt Fischer (FF), Uffz. Hans Bornwasser (Bf), Ogefr. Siegfried Buchmann (Bm), Ogefr. Friedrich Tatje (Bs) went all MIA.
Though there is a discrepancy in the dates!

On 01.05.44 St.Lt. Aleksandr Dmitrievich Karpov (5+1) of P-40 Kittyhawk-equipped 30 ORAE VVS-ChF was credited with 1 Ju.52 s/d in the Evpatoriya area for personal victory No.5.
This could be:
5/1/44 2. TG 2 F Cap Hersons (10 km südwestl.) Absturz brennend ins Meer infolge Jägerbeschuß Ju 52 /3m 501208 I. 100 Ofw. Lövenich, Christian vm. Ostfront (Lfl.4) (Bf) Ofw. Unger, Erich [vm.] / (Bw) Uffz. Semlitsch, Josef [vm.] / (Bs) Ogfr. Brümmer, Richard [vm.] 4-0-0-0
Though the Evpatorja area is some 100km away from Cape Khersones...

If anyone could contribute or add...? If all these claims match this would be a rare 100% claim/loss case, which maybe depends on the fact, that Karpov seldom fought with large groups of enemy aircraft. We can see this phenonemum also with claims of the soviet PVO fighter pilots, which operated over own territory against single german recce planes.

Cheers

Michael
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 5th April 2019, 15:40
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 2,917
Laurent Rizzotti is on a distinguished road
Re: A low but reliable soviet ace pilot

Most if not all claims by Karpov were against solitary German aircraft, and this is the case where the claim are usually the most accurate. But to be sure to have a clear "who shot down who" case, you can't only check if you find a German loss, you also need to check all Soviet claims to be sure there was only one for the loss you find.

Best regards
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th April 2019, 20:31
Monaco Monaco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 246
Monaco is on a distinguished road
Re: A low but reliable soviet ace pilot

Dear Laurent,
this is exactly what I´m talking about and what the science of history is all about. A thesis is as long existing until it´s proven otherwise. After years of researching I´m careful of making absolute statements and if you have read it carefully prefer using terms like...this could be...(we were not there and there are always more sources around). I´m happy if other people know more about a topic and add their knowledge. This is also the case with Karpov especially with the last claim as JU.52s often fell prey to soviet fighters during the Crimean operation. About the seaplanes I´m more convinced as operating over sea they were normally shot down by navy pilots (see M. Bykhov´s work), but you never know.


Best regards
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Soviet ace Zakhar Sorokin Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 2 20th October 2017 22:07
Barkhorn's 200th. For Michael (Nokose) Nick Hector Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 24th January 2017 02:00
Highly decorated Soviet Fighter pilot shot down 12-30-42 near Stalingrad kaki3152 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 3rd May 2015 20:16
Eastern vs Western Front (was: La-7 vs ???) Christer Bergström Allied and Soviet Air Forces 66 1st March 2005 20:44
IL-2 Soviet pilot Lysov cz_raf Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 20th January 2005 17:04


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net