Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30th July 2005, 17:43
Jerome Ribeiro Jerome Ribeiro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 90
Jerome Ribeiro is on a distinguished road
Question Me109/Me110 - Sedan - Unknown JG Units

Hello Everyone,

On May 14, 1940, a most significant & deseperate action involving the Amiot 143M was a daring daylight raid on German bridgeheads near the south of Sedan. A force of then planes from GBs I/34, II/34, and II/38 dubbed "Groupement 9" led by Commandant de Laubier encountered the Lufwaffe Me 109 & Me 110 fighters en route.

One Amiot 143M N°69 from Capitaine Marie was attacked by a Me109. The fighter made several attacks at the rear and below the bomber. When the Me109 was aligned with the A/C, the fire hit the rear lower gunner S/C Thévenard at the legs and thus break away, replaced by a Me110. The rear gunner Teyssier emptied his gun on it. The Me110 appproached till 50m and fired the bomber, burning the two engines. The crew bailed out.

At the same time,The Amiot 143M n°85 from Lt Foucher was hitted by the flak and also attacked by a Me 110. fortunately, he escaped by flying at law level.
  • Do anybody knows the lufwaffe units Me110 & Me 109 which paticipated to the protection of Sedan on May 14th, 1940?
  • Do you know if JG reports/books or magazin give details on this victory ( pilot, prisonners, JG units or # of A/C)?
Thanking you in anticipation
Best regards

Jerome
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30th July 2005, 17:54
robert robert is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 1,895
robert is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Me109/Me110 - Sedan - Unknown JG Units

Hi Jerome,

the Amiots were under attack of II/JG52 fighters (Staka of 5/JG52 Olt.August-W. Schumann made one claim on 14.05). The Me110 were from III/ZG26 and made some 4-5 claims against the amiots (13.20-13.43).

Regards

Robert
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30th July 2005, 18:24
Jerome Ribeiro Jerome Ribeiro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 90
Jerome Ribeiro is on a distinguished road
Re: Me109/Me110 - Sedan - Unknown JG Units

Hi Robert,

Thank you for the tips.

I understood that the fighters which shooted down the Amiot 143 n°69 was piloted by the team Olt.August-W. Schumann on 14.05. This A/C is belonging to the II/JG52, fighters units (staka?) of the 5/JG52. It is a Me110 type fighter. The others Me110 reported above were coming from the III/ZG26.
  • Is it the correct statement?
  • What is the unit of the reported Me 109?
  • Does anyone who know book of these units?
Please note that Amiot n°56 from de Laubier was also attacked by Me fighters but beat off by gunners. Among the 10 Amiot bombers engaged on the 14.05, 5 were destroyed, 5 damaged...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30th July 2005, 18:32
robert robert is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 1,895
robert is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Me109/Me110 - Sedan - Unknown JG Units

Hi,

the II/JG52 flew the Me 109`s so I assume that Schumann has attacked this Amiot. You know the results of this attack so he didnt brought this a/c down.
The Me110`s pilots claimed following victories against the french bombers:

9/ZG26 Unf.W.Ross 13.20 Bloch 131
9/ZG26 Lt.K.Sidow 13.30 Bloch 131
8/ZG26 Olt.K-H.Mayer 13.35 Breuget
9/ZG26 Fw.H.Supke 13.40 Bloch 131
9/ZG26 Fw.H.Supke 13.43 Bloch 131

Regards

Robert
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30th July 2005, 18:51
Jerome Ribeiro Jerome Ribeiro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 90
Jerome Ribeiro is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Re: Me109/Me110 - Sedan - Unknown JG Units

Hello Robert,

It is clear for me. You said that W. Schumann made one claim on 14.05.
  • Is reported an Amiot143?
Also, I presume that one pilot of Me 110 from the III/ZG26 made a misidentification on bomber. I confirm that Amiot 143 n°69 was shooted down by Me 110. 12 MS 406 protected the Amiot.

I made an investigation regarding the ops around Sedan. It appears that 5 leo 451 from the I & II/12 were also engaged to Sedan. LeO n° 48 was shooted down by Me (not identified).The remaining bombers bombing the objectives.
  • Do you know whether or not others JG protected this sedan Area?
Thanks again.


Best regards
Jerome
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30th July 2005, 19:00
robert robert is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 1,895
robert is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Me109/Me110 - Sedan - Unknown JG Units

Hello Jerome,

please give me your mail. I have an excel database which I want to share with you.

Regards

Robert
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 3rd August 2005, 09:53
Jerome Ribeiro Jerome Ribeiro is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paris
Posts: 90
Jerome Ribeiro is on a distinguished road
Post Re: Me109/Me110 - Sedan - Unknown JG Units

Hello,

Does anyone know which Me110 ZG unit would have claimed french Bomber Amiot143 on May 14, 1940?

Apparently the 9/ZG26 claimed victories against Bloch 131 and not Amiot143 (A/C shape complety different).

Thank You
Regards

Jerome
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lost Ju 52s in January, 1945 HGabor Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 4 11th March 2013 16:34
Ju188 lost in France Eric Larger Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 16 15th December 2011 23:47
FW190a-3 /A4 AGr123 in France 1943 1944. Eric Larger Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 16 12th June 2011 09:29
Documentation of 2000HP Bf 109s of 1945 Kurfürst Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 5 10th September 2009 12:15
Unknown Luftwaffe units - help needed... Boris Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 28th January 2005 21:33


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net