So P-40s made mincemeat of Bf109s?

[Richard Aigner]

Over on Hyperscale there is a thread evaluating the pros and cons of the P-40, including the results of two combats copied and pasted below:

On 1 July 1943, 22 P-40s made a fighter sweep over southern Italy. Forty Bf-109s surprised the checker-tails, engaging them at moderate altitude where the P-40 performed best. After an intense dogfight the Germans lost half their force while only one P-40 failed to come back.

A similar event took place on the 30th of the same month in which 20 P-40s were bounced by thirty-five 109s. The Germans limped home after losing 21 of their own while the checker-tails came through with only one loss.

Are these results reflected in German loss statements?
TIA, Richard

[Don Pearson]

Previously discussed here;

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archiv...p?t-29045.html

Don

[G.R.Morrison]

It is likely a lot has to do with the man in the cockpit. This excerpt from pilot interviews by Chris Shores and Hans Ring.

Prof. Dr. Ludwig Franzisket was Adjutant, then Staffelkapitän of the 1./JG 27, and one of the first three “Afrikans” to be awarded the Ritterkreuz:
“The appearance of the Tomahawks (in the Battle of Sollum, June 1941) was not very impressive. These units flew a very clumsy and tight formation, massed in immobile groups of thirty to forty aircraft. The tactics of the Bf 109s was to gain superior altitude very quickly and to dive down single-handed. The British squadrons answered only with an excited twisting and weaving. However it was a deadly mistake for a Bf 109 pilot to try and enter a dogfight with the Curtisses. I have seen the death of two or three comrades in dogfights with Curtisses, among them Leutnant Heinz Schmidt in June 1941.”
(Schmidt, a 6-victory ace of the 3./JG 27, was KIA 28.June 1941, 10km West of Capuzzo)

GRM

[focusfocus]

No mission the 01/07/1943 for the Checkertail clan

Mission No.72 :jun 30 Escort Trapani/Milo Airfield
Mission No.73 :jul 03 Strafing Pula,Sardinia
Mission No.74 and 75:jul 03 Escort Capoterra landing ground

prob. another unity that day

michel

[Jim P.]

Just as a point of reference, here are the reported LW fighter losses for the Med for these dates (I hope I didn't exclude anything by accident.):

Bf 109G-6, 15426, Zuck, Fw. Herbert, , I., 3., JG 77, gelbe, 8 +, , , 01-Jul-43, KIA due to Luftkampf with Spitfire., südwestlich Comiso per loss?, Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.390; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1617, , 3km westlich Comiso, 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6, 16410, Langhoff, Uffz. Alfred, , II., 4., JG 77, weiße, 2 + -, NJ+MY, , 01-Jul-43, MIA due to Luftkampf with Spitfire. Struck the water., , Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.462; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1617, LEMB, nordostwärts Bizerta, 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6, 18039, Janke, Flg. Erwin, , II., 6., JG 77, gelbe, 9 + -, GP+IS, , 01-Jul-43, MIA due to Luftkampf with Spitfire., Bizerta per Prien, et al., Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.462; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1617, LEMB, nordostwärts Bizerta, 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6, 15263, Brentrup, Uffz. Josef, , III., 8., JG 77, schwarzes, 5 +, , , 30-Jul-43, MIA due to Luftkampf with Spitfire during recon sortie., südlich Alghero per loss., Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.540; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1679, , Raum Golf von Tunis (PlQu. 14 Ost / 08 45), 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6, 15496, Kosinowski, Uffz. Hans, , III., 8., JG 77, schwarzes, 11 +, , , 30-Jul-43, WIA due to Luftkampf with P-40., , Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.540; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1678, , 20km südöstlich Alghero, 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6, 18138, Pielsticker, Fw. Wolf, , III., 7., JG 77, weiße, 3 +, KT+WB, , 30-Jul-43, WIA due to Luftkampf with P-40., , Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.540; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1678, LEMB, 20km südöstlich Alghero, 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6/trop, 18156, Bertram, Ltn. Heribert, , III., 9., JG 77, gelbe, 13 +, KT+WT, , 30-Jul-43, WIA due to Luftkampf with P-40., MIA per loss., Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.540, p.525 photo; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1679, p.1637 photo, LEMB, 20km südöstlich Alghero, 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6, 18161, Wilke, Ltn. Fritz, , III., 7., JG 77, schwarzes, 10 +, KT+WY, , 30-Jul-43, KIA due to Luftkampf with enemy fighters., , Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.19; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, XI.2, p.540; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1678, LEMB, bei Uri/Sardinien, 100%, F, , ,

Bf 109G-6, 18664, n.n., , , , NAGr. 14, , , TN+JS, , 30-Jul-43, Enemy fire., , Lfl.2/Mittelmeer, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.20, , südlich Catania, 100%, F, , ,

[VtwinVince]

Other factors are important, such as aircrew training ie. Luftwaffe crews were not nearly as well trained, on average, as their Allied opponents by this time.