4.(S)/LG2 Insignia: background color, origins & relation to personal insignia of Adolf Galland - Page 3 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Larry Hickey · #21 26th January 2011, 20:34

Marius/Many,

Thanks for your comments. We're beginning to unravel this now. The key piece of info is when Weiss originally took command of 5 Staffel. If it was prior to July 1, 1939 (When Galland joined II Gr), then Galland couldn't have served, even for a short time, as StaKap of 5 Staffel. Also, do we know the date that Galland took command of 4 Staffel, and from whom? He could have served on the Stab of II.(S)/LG2 for a while after he joined II Gr (up to about 6 weeks), before taking command of 4.(S)/LG2, at least by Aug. 9, 1939, when he is known to be flying L2+AM on an almost daily basis. I'm still suspecting that Galland probably never was Kap of 5 Staffel and that the sources that claim this are mistaken.

Regards,

Many Souffan · #22 26th January 2011, 22:24

Hello Larry.

I agree with you, and it was, and it is always my point of view. I don't know who found, he was staka of 5.(S)/LG2.

So why I wait for the anwser of Mr Prien.

I know a photograph coming from Galland himself flying in L2+BM

Larry Hickey · #23 26th January 2011, 23:40

Many,

Where was this photo of Galland in L2+BM published?

Regards,

Many Souffan · #24 27th January 2011, 08:04

Larry.

This photo was published in "Les premiers et les derniers" (the first and last) of Adolf Galland édited by Yves Michelet éditeur, inte the first note book of photographs after the page 116.

Thank you.

Many Souffan · #25 6th February 2011, 19:27

Hello Larry.

Did you received some infos from Mr Jochen Prien ?

warmest regards.

Larry Hickey · #26 6th February 2011, 22:38

Many,

Not yet; remember, Jochen publishes these books with a team, who provide various parts of each volume. I've been trying to track down the source of the original problem, which is Galland's officer files, which Doug Stankey and Larry de Zeng have largely been using to create their officer bios, a number of which have been published on this board. I think it is clear now, after working with Doug Stankey on this, that the most accurate source for the leadership of II.(S)/LG2, at least for the Polish Campaign, is Marius Emmerling's excellent Vol 3 of "Luftwaffe Nad Polska," which is in Polish, but has been translated into English as a reference for the EOE Project. A/O 8/26/39 Marius records that Spielvogel was the Gr. Kdre (until he was SD by German ground fire and killed on 09.09.39). He also has the StaKap as Adolf Galland (4 St); Otto Weiss (5 St.); and Oblt. Friedrich Lampe (6 St.). Weiss, who was 5 StaKap moved up to GrKdr on 10.09.39 and his place was taken by Oblt. Horst Freiherr von Grote.

During the WC of May-Jun 1940, Weiss was Gr. Kdr., and, according to Prien's JFV Vol 4/II, the StaKap a/o 26.6.40 were Grote (4 St.); Oblt. Egon Thiem (5 St.) and Oblt. Wolf-Dieter Pietsmeyer (6 St), all three of whom and the Gr Kdr won the RK by late in the WC, although Grote is missing from Obermeier's RKT book for Stuka and Schlacht pilots for some unknown reason. He still is reported winning the RK on June 21, 1940 (as did the other unit StaKap) on a German website for RK winners. Emmerling reports that Grote took Weiss's place as StaKap of 5 Staffel when Weiss moved up to GrKdr on 10.09.39, but what we don't know is how he got to be StaKap of 4 Staffel by May, 1940 and the WC.

Galland flew his last flight while StaKap of 4 Staffel on 17.2.40, then transferred to the 109 and the Stab of JG27. Did Grote transfer at that time from 5 Staffel to 4 Staffel to replace Galland, and Thiem was promoted to replace him in 5 Staffel? And when did Pietsmeyer take command of 6 Staffel from Lampe (or some other interim person)? When and why did Lampe leave? Pietsmeyer was apparently promoted to 6 StaKap from within 6 Staffel, although we don't know the date.

So that is where we stand with II.(S)/LG2 during 1939-40 up to the time the unit converted from the Hs123 to the Bf109E-4/B, Weiss, Grote, Thiem and Pietsmeyer all remaining in their positions, according to Prien's JFV Vol 4/II, until this conversion took place during 08.40.

Marius Emmerling also identifies two Stab Officers for II Gr a/o 09.09.40: Oblt FNU Meinardus, Gr Adj., and Lt. FNU Rasch, a pilot with the Stab in an unstated position. Rasch is also referred to as in 4 Staffel during the PC, so he may have had a dual position. Does anyone know first names or anything else about the careers of either of these two individuals?

Any comments or additional info out there to answer these questions?

Regards,

Many Souffan · #27 7th February 2011, 13:12

Larry.

Thank you for the infos, which comfort me what I thought.

As I already said, Galland was first TO in the Stab, before to be StaKa 4.(S)/LG 2.

Thank you again.

Larry Hickey · #28 7th February 2011, 17:27

Hello Many,

Thanks for your comments. What is your source for Galland being TO in the Stab of II.(S)/LG2 in 1939 after he was first assigned to II.(S)/LG2 on on 01.07.39? There is about a six week gap from that date and before his known FB starts with entries showing him flying L2+AM (as StaKap of 4. St) on an almost daily basis. So, this information is credible, but I need whatever documentation there is for your statement. Presumably he would have been flying Hs123 L2+CB or DB if he was T.0. in the Stab if this info is correct. Are you aware of any photos from the immediate pre-war or Polish Campaign showing an Hs123 of the II Gr Stab? Are you aware of any photos of his L2+AM that he flew for the last few months of 1939?

Regards,

Many Souffan · #29 7th February 2011, 18:01

Hi Larry

As I told you, my source was Galland Himself.

He came directly from RLM, as first as TO.

He never spoke about 5.(S)/LG2 only stab and 4th staffel.

Bf 110 · #30 9th August 2015, 10:26