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Old 14th November 2010, 12:44
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Hungarian-Slovak land losses in March 1939

The losses in air are well know concerning Slovak-Hungarian very small air war in March 1939.
I wonder if there are any information concerning land losses on both side, during these land fighting in March 1939.
If I right remeber total losses on Hungarian side were about 150 (?) soldiers.
Can someone confirm or add something to it?

Regards,
mw
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Old 14th November 2010, 21:02
Michal Michal is offline
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Re: Hungarian-Slovak land losses in March 1939

We are speaking on Slovak-Hungarian Conflict, but it is not exact because biggest losses were during retreat of former Czechoslovak Troops (12. pěší divize, 12th Infantry Division) from Area of so called Carpatho-Ukraine. After March 15 1939 in this division left only half of Combat Strength, mostly Czechs. Three streams of soldiers from this Division were succesful to seek refuge in Slovakia, Poland and Romania.

After several days of fights with Hungarian Troops there were according to Czech Sources estimated around 40 Killed Soldiers (not counting Slovak Ones) and approximately 120 WIA. Hungarians officially claimed that 72 their soldiers were killed, 2 MIA and around 240 wounded. Although Hungarian War Reporters reported on approximately 200 Hungarian Soldiers and Members of Non-Official Units were killed and several hundreds wounded.

From Czech Side there are any Complex Material, Czech Historians were able this information really dig out off Archives. So, it could not be exactly Numbers from Czech Point of View. No wonder, that former Czechoslovak Troops fought in Carpatho-Ukraine several Days after Occupation of Bohemia and Moravia by Nazi Germany. And Slovakia was already couple of days Independent State.
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Old 15th November 2010, 15:46
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Hungarian-Slovak land losses in March 1939

Yes, combats between 23.03-31.03.39.
I know that Czech troops had withdrown mostly to Romania, even one S.328 had landed there.
I do not remeber, that Czech soldiers had crossed Polish border? It possible, but very difficoult according earlier political, enemy situation.

According a book: Madarska Armada, by Kliment, Bernad (2007), the losses, estimation done by Germany sources, were about 100-150 KIA and twice more WIA (about 200-300).
So it could be quite high too, and very similar to this one in April 1941 in combat against Yugoslavia.

It looks very high indeed, even too high, and maybe you are right with this losses sustained during combats versus 12. Czech Division?

Slovak had just began to organise own military forces (lack of officers), so they do not have enough military power to make such big losses on Hungary units (?).

Regards
mw
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Old 15th December 2010, 18:02
g-1reaper g-1reaper is offline
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Re: Hungarian-Slovak land losses in March 1939

Dear Mirek,
You mentioned that the aerial losses are wellknown, do you have any sources, I'm actually quite interested in the aerial operations of the conflict...
Regards,
Edwin
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Old 15th December 2010, 23:34
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Hungarian-Slovak land losses in March 1939

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski View Post
According a book: Madarska Armada, by Kliment, Bernad (2007), the losses, estimation done by Germany sources, were about 100-150 KIA and twice more WIA (about 200-300).
So it could be quite high too, and very similar to this one in April 1941 in combat against Yugoslavia.
The original English text of my book reads: A German intelligence report on March 27, 1939, gives the following summary account of the events: "In the morning of March 23, certain Hungarian detachments, advancing from the south and east, entered Eastern Slovakia from three directions. The advance came to a standstill on March 24. The line of demarcation occupied at the end of encounters would probably be, apart of minor deviations, 10-15 km inside Slovakia. About 100-150 persons were killed during the clashes and about twice as many wounded.”
Therefore, the total losses of all sides were estimated at about 100-150 soldiers killed.

If you check out Chapter 7, you will find the following info:
"In total, Hungary recovered 12,171 square kilometres territory as Sub-Carpathia. The Hungarian Army paid for this gain with seventy-two dead, 144 wounded and three missing."
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Old 19th December 2010, 14:13
Mirek Wawrzynski Mirek Wawrzynski is offline
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Re: Hungarian-Slovak land losses in March 1939

Quote:
About 100-150 persons were killed during the clashes and about twice as many wounded.”


I apperciate your corrections and great thanks for it Denes, but from the mentioned document it is not so evident that (even in your English translation), there were given both side losses, reading English version, without it too, I still be "sure" that Gemans were only thinking about Hungarian losses.


Quote:
If you check out Chapter 7, you will find the following info:
"In total, Hungary recovered 12,171 square kilometres territory as Sub-Carpathia. The Hungarian Army paid for this gain with seventy-two dead, 144 wounded and three missing."


This above losses concern whole Hunagraian combats in March 1939 versus: Czech 12. Division, Ukrainian's OUN partizans and last Slovak forces. Of coures there are no included no-regular Hungarian units involved in the combats?

In your book you had mentioned on p. 15: Hungarian land losses after Slovak air attack were as: 15 KIA and 30 WIA, plus a few destroyed or damaged vehicles.

Quote:
You mentioned that the aerial losses are well known, do you have any sources, I'm actually quite interested in the aerial operations of the conflict...
The air clashes were very good done by several authors in the last 15 years or so. Texts were written in English and also in Polish, and in Czech and could be in Slovak language too, I think so.

You may find such information in SAFO's magazine in the last edition, where is text done by B. Kudlicka and R. Hofling: Air War over Ruthenia: Hungary vs. Slovak (SAFO vol 34, no 1. and no 2 from October 2010, the last one). In this last article (no 2) there are nice 16 photos section, but pity not good reproduced.

Personaly, I did similar article already 8 years ago:

Air War over CarpathianMountain (Slowak-Hungarian Air War in III 1939). Wojna powietrzna nad Karpatami (konflikt lotniczy węgiersko-słowacki 23-31 III 1939), p. 7 + 1 p. with 5 colours (CR.32 V.108 of 1./1 Fighter Flight, Ju 86 K-2 „B.350” of 3./5 Bomber Flight, He 70 K “F.409” of 1./2. Long Reccon Flight, Avia B.534, Letov S-328), + 12 b&w photos, [in:] Militaria i Fakty 1/2002.

Similar book was edited in Poland by Andrzej Olejko but mostly written from Slovak perspective in 2002 (book edited pararell with my article). Olejko had colaborate with Slovak writer Jan Petrik on this book (Karpackie niebo 1939). Very good done research indeed, you could not dig deeper about Slovak side. This book is also about Slovak involvemnts in war in September 1939

There was also earlier the text done by P. Mujzer in the SAFO too in late 90. of XX c.

You may find many aditional information on H. Gustavsson's very good side Biplane Fighter Aces of WW II (pleny information about Slovak and Hungarian pilots who had fought in this conflict).

I do not know if D. Bernard, have written something on the same subject (he mentiones a few information in his Czech book about Hungarian Army, but very few information about air combats indeed).


So, there were some articles, books focused on this so "small and still unknow" subject of air war between Slovak and Hungary in March 1939. There are all: units structure, amounts, combats, claims, real losses, times of losses, all what one man can image and need.

Regards,
mirekw

PS
Becze Csaba had such project 2-3 years ago, but not yet realised, to edited with MMP a book about air comabts in March 1939. It was posponed, I think so and I do not know why? I do not see it again on MMP side. It is pity!?
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