Forgotten Hero Aircraft Digging Excavation Clip

[nine991]

Interesting clip . I believe people should have the opportunity to make up their own mind about this.

[Ruy Horta]

1st This forum is not a place to fight a personal feud, but I'll give you one chance.

2nd I don't know the regulations on this matter, but it should be quite simple actually. One should be relatively free to dig around, certainly on private property. If one comes across human remains, the authorities/military should be contacted and all digging stopped.

3rd In the end I find all too sensationalist for my taste. The remains got a proper burial and the family got personal possessions, perhaps there should be some room for gratitude instead of repugnance.

I have no strong opinion in the matter and don't wish to drag the forum in a flame fest.

[mhuxt]

Just do us all a favour and lock the damn thread please Ruy.

[Chris Goss]

I am afraid that of late, there have been a series of posts of a similar nature from (a?) (new?) member who then stirs up a hornets nest only to disappear again; shortly after, a new member joins whose style is similar? Likewise, if you have a personal feud, please take your views and battles elsewhere as this Forum is not the place

[David Ransome]

At the end of the day this was a dig on an aircraft where the body had been apparently recovered and buried during the war. Maybe the MoD at the time should have made it clear in the records that most or part of the body had been recovered, rather than all, but they were too much under pressure with the war effort to spend too much time with individual cases. There have been and will be cases where recoverers will come across human remains that had supposedly been removed but the fact is that these people have in general done more to tie up loose ends than the MoD ever has, or been able to, bringing closure for many a family still grieving after their sad loss.

Historians and researchers alike have learnt much from these and similar recoveries, in many cases being able to correct major inaccuracies in the historical record, some substantially changing the perspective view of major events and shedding new light on some controversial ones. As regards purely personal items recovered I do believe that these should at least be offered to the family as World War II is still a recent event in living memory - why they weren't, or didn't seem to be, in this case is not for me to guess at although I doubt that any financial gain was involved. I can certainly empathise with the lady's view based, I suspect, on partial knowledge of the background.

My empathy stems from the fact that I had a relative who died in a Heinkel 111 crash in 1940. The aircraft crash site was dug and remnants were found including some personal bits and pieces. When I and the family found out about this some years after we were at first rather annoyed and resentful. Our mood changed when we realised that at last we had closure on a sad chapter in our family history and that at last a life had been recognised, and that others had a chance to appreciate some of that history, albeit maintaining our own anonymity. Therefore, I concur with Ruy - more gratitude than repugnance.

I believe that the main reason for selling some items recovered at crash sites is to be able to fund the recoveries themselves which can't be cheap and don't attract much if any funding from outside agencies. Some of these agencies are quite happy for others to provide the funding and the resources. I feel that these recoveries can be as vital to our understanding of Archaeology just as much as those involving mediaeval plague pits or the Valley of the Kings.

David

[nine991]

Originally Posted by Ruy Horta

1st This forum is not a place to fight a personal feud, but I'll give you one chance.

2nd I don't know the regulations on this matter, but it should be quite simple actually. One should be relatively free to dig around, certainly on private property. If one comes across human remains, the authorities/military should be contacted and all digging stopped.

3rd In the end I find all too sensationalist for my taste. The remains got a proper burial and the family got personal possessions, perhaps there should be some room for gratitude instead of repugnance.

I have no strong opinion in the matter and don't wish to drag the forum in a flame fest.

I'll be completley honest Ruy. I'm very interested in aircraft excavation and have attended a few digs, though not many. The second film "Graverobbers" gives a better understanding of this.

[David Ransome]

Hi 'new member' nine991,

I'm intrigued as to why you edited out most of your text at 22.50 which referred to your personal knowledge of how much money these artefacts were supposedly going for, and so on, which seemingly indicated your view of matters, and possibly knowledge of the case in the film. The sudden disappearance of your comment has debatably altered the context of the following replies!

David

[gedburke3]

Sir (nine991),
Might I suggest that you invest in a copy of the attached book.
It is a must read for all with a genuine interest in aircraft archaeology and the pitfalls encountered along the way.
It also explains how airmen missing since 1940 have been discovered through meticulous research thus allowing closure to grieving relatives.
Mr Saunders work over the past 30 plus years has enabled historical events such as the Battle of Britain and WW2 aviation to remain in the public's conscience. It has also contributed, in no small way, to an expanding and global demand for WW2 items. That is something that you of all people should appreciate. (If you are who I suspect you are).
You obviously have a lot to offer a community like this and I for one would welcome that, I also notice that you use forums to obtain information relating to your own collection/items, which is fair enough.
However, please stop this relentless and pointless intimidation of an individual who offers assistance and sound advice to other contributors. It is distasteful and unnecessary.
I hope that you take this post in the manner it was intended.
Gerry


<src="http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x296/gedburke3/findingcover.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[nine991]

Originally Posted by David Ransome

Hi 'new member' nine991,

I'm intrigued as to why you edited out most of your text at 22.50 which referred to your personal knowledge of how much money these artefacts were supposedly going for, and so on, which seemingly indicated your view of matters, and possibly knowledge of the case in the film. The sudden disappearance of your comment has debatably altered the context of the following replies!

David

Hello David.
I altered it due to Ruy Horta's reply and another suggestion to lock the thread. Sorry I have no intention of creating hostility so thought better to edit and let people decide for themselves.

[nine991]

[quote=gedburke3;101513]Sir (nine991),
Might I suggest that you invest in a copy of the attached book.
It is a must read for all with a genuine interest in aircraft archaeology and the pitfalls encountered along the way.
It also explains how airmen missing since 1940 have been discovered through meticulous research thus allowing closure to grieving relatives.
Mr Saunders work over the past 30 plus years has enabled historical events such as the Battle of Britain and WW2 aviation to remain in the public's conscience. It has also contributed, in no small way, to an expanding and global demand for WW2 items. That is something that you of all people should appreciate. (If you are who I suspect you are).
You obviously have a lot to offer a community like this and I for one would welcome that, I also notice that you use forums to obtain information relating to your own collection/items, which is fair enough.
However, please stop this relentless and pointless intimidation of an individual who offers assistance and sound advice to other contributors. It is distasteful and unnecessary.
I hope that you take this post in the manner it was intended.
Gerry

Thankyou for your polite reply Gerry. I didn't intend to create a hostile atmosphere by posting this and I don't really have a lot offer though. I'll just keep a low profile and search the archives of this great site. Haven't heard of the book but it's on my list.