Dulag Luft Files

[Steve Brew]

A pilot and ex-POW I interviewed today recalls his interrogation in Dulag Luft in Frankfurt. His cell was standing room only and had no windows. In the evening, he was sent for and found himself in front of an Officer who said in a Manchester accent, “Hello, my name is Black.” He replied, “are you a traitor?” and the man laughed and said, “no, my name is actually Schwartz,” and explained he had been to Manchester University.

Does anyone recognise this interrogator from their research and can they give me any further information on him, please?

Schwartz then asked if he would like to hear the news from London, and the radio was turned on in time for him to catch the BBC news. Then Schwartz pulled out a folder marked, “41 Squadron,” and looked down a list of the pilots that had been shot down, until he reached my pilot’s name, which had an annotation next to it, “Escaped.” Schwartz then went on to astonish him with his knowledge of him, asking if he missed his dog Monty (still on the base back int he UK), but assured him not to worry as he was being looked after by fellow pilot, Flt. Lt. ‘Barney’ Newman. He also knew about his history in the RAF, including his time in Malta and his career in mining and surveying in South Africa. To this day, he does not know how Schwartz could have obtained this information.

Two questions here:

1. Does anyone know if such files (i.e. a "41 Squadron" folder) might still exist? They don't seem to be amongst those in the National Archives in London (though some interrogation records are there), so might they exist in a German Archiv?

2. Though no-one from the Squadron was recently captured (the nearest two both evaded), it is still hard to believe that interrogation of other Squadron pilots would have generated so much information about a single pilot (I don't know what info they held on other pilots, hence my previous question). Whilst I am aware that the Allies captured information on interrogations which led to some airmen being tried after the War for having given away too much information during their interrogation (files at TNA in London), I am unaware of any 41 Squadron pilot being tried for such an act that information of the type held by the Luftwaffe about my pilot would have resulted in. Although I appreciate the answer to this question may be pure hypothesis, does anyone have information on how German Intelligence could have obtained such detailed information on active pilots?

Thanks
Steve

[Bruce Dennis]

A good description of the whole uncomfortable process of interrogating captured Allied airmen is in David Kahn’s ‘HITLER’S SPIES’. Chapter 9, ‘Questioning the Foe’ covers that subject and, if you acquire the hardback version, cites many references. The meticulous gathering of trivia, employed by captors on both sides, is discussed frankly and includes a few examples of how this process persuaded captured airmen to ‘open up’ to their captors.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

[Steve Brew]

Thanks very much Bruce

I see there are 30 copies on Abebooks for as little as USD$1, so I'll get myself one, thanks.

Steve

[Flugplatz Giessen]

Hello,

in the book "The Interrogater" publised by schiffer you will get more informations. You can also find a picture of schwarz and many other interrogaters from Dulag Luft Frankfurt.

In the Bundesmilitärarchiv Freiburg you will find some small infos about Dulag Luft but not the 41 Sqd-File.

Regards

[Chris Goss]

Steve: You would be lucky to get files from Dulag Luft. The AHB has a few and they are incredibly detailed so the German sources and methods were very goood
Chris

[Steve Brew]

Hallo Flugi

Thanks for the suggestion of "The Interrogator", which has also been suggested by someone else. I've just bought a copy on Abebooks.

Hi Chris

Thanks for the tip; I'll contact them and ask. My German's fluent, so will have no trouble understanding files if they have anything. I understand the AHB's recently moved. Where are they now, please?


As an side, do you - or does anyone - know whether any files from Gestapo interrogations have survived, and if so where they might be? As my pilot was hidden by the Resistance, he was first interrogated by the Gestapo in Paris at the beginning of February 1944, before being sent to Dulg Luft.

Thanks
Steve

[Chris Goss]

Steve: You are wasting your time with the AHB as I have copies of what they have and there is nothing of substance or on 41 Sqn
Chris

[Steve Brew]

Ah, okay, understood, thanks for letting me know.
Steve

[David Ransome]

Hi,

I know that I have touched on the topic before of captured German records relating to individuals but suffice it to say that a large quantity of documentation was and is kept that may not be released for a good while yet, even to IWM, NA or AHB. These included interrogation reports and it is amazing just how much information was collected and sifted, some by 'listening in', some by direct (and mostly 'friendly') questioning, and some from items collected from bodies or PoWs. The latter included letters, show tickets, receipts etc.
The reason for non-release is fairly simple - data protection; relatives, even ex-PoWs themselves could be severely embarassed by what could be seen as helping the enemy.
After the last lot of comment on the matter I had my 'wrists well and truly slapped' and so cannot say any more on the subject, certainly at present!

Regards

David