Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 17th November 2021, 15:20
Dan O'Connell Dan O'Connell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon, USA
Posts: 519
Dan O'Connell is on a distinguished road
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Jim, White 4 is 170061.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17th November 2021, 21:14
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 609
Karoband will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Hi Dan,

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=820

The above is an enlargement from a photo previously posted on the web of page 414 in Smith & Creek, Me 262 Volume Two, (1998), whose caption identifies it as "W.Nr. 130017 'White 4'". To my eye, the original photo in their book shows a "306" beneath the horizontal stabilizer. On consulting the Production Log, I find on page 69: "170306 Me 262 A-1a. ... Uffz. Helmut Schmidt of 10./EJG 2, was injured on7 January 1945, in the Lechfeld area, while landing. 'White 4' was 90 percent destroyed."

This was why I captioned it "possibly W.Nr. 170306".

best regards,

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18th November 2021, 19:59
Dan O'Connell Dan O'Connell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon, USA
Posts: 519
Dan O'Connell is on a distinguished road
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Jim, I was lucky enough to have a very good copy of that photo before being lost by hard drive failure, and it was 170061 plain as day. Granted, that was just one photo of one White 4, and there were many, as with all the other numbers. Just FYI. Take care!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18th November 2021, 22:08
David E. Brown's Avatar
David E. Brown David E. Brown is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 269
David E. Brown will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Jim,

Dan is correct - there is a clearer version of that photos that reveals the Werknummer. Note that since it was given a replacement experimental wooden fin and rudder the Werknummer was re-applied in a lower position as seen on 130xxx series machines.

Best,

David
__________________
"He has all of the virtues I despise and none of the vices I admire." W.S.C.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18th November 2021, 22:39
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 609
Karoband will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Dan and David,

Thank you very much for this correction. It is appreciated.

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 24th November 2021, 10:31
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 609
Karoband will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=822

32. The early Me 262 S series aircraft were used as conversion trainers for pilots from III./ZG 26 who were to become Erprobungskommando 262 under Hauptmann Werner Thierfelder. These Me 262s had an overall coat of RLM 76 light blue and a red nose number. This photo shows Me 262 S1 W.Nr. 130006 VI+AF Red 1 in flight.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=823

33. EKdo. 262's aircraft were delivered in the spring and early summer 1944. They are distinguished by the RLM 74/75 grays as upper camouflage over the RLM 76 undercoat and undersides, including on the forward engine cowls. Being a "proving" unit the individual aircraft numeral was placed on the nose. Being also a training and conversion unit, they carried a yellow band on the rear fuselage behind the cockpit as III./EJG 2 did later.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=824

34. Another photo of the same line-up of aircraft. Note that at this time (summer 1944), W.Nr. 170071 White 2 had the top gun port sealed and had only one white gun rectangle , thus making it a Me 262 A-2a.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=825

35. A still from a training film made in 1944 shows a member of the ground crew using the pull rope of the Riedel starter to activate the Junkers Jumo 109-004 turbojet. In this photo, Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 170041 White 10 has two white gun rectangles and lacks the ETC-503 bomb rack seen in other photos.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=826

36. Me 262 S12 W.Nr. 130017 White 4 was the aircraft that Ltn. Alfred Schreiber was flying on 26 July 1944, the day he claimed the first aerial victory by a Me 262.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 1st December 2021, 12:21
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 609
Karoband will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=827

37. It is known for certain that this is a photograph of a Me 262 A-1a of Kommando Nowotny. On 8 November 1944, near Achmer, Lt. James W. Kenny of the 357th FG shot up W.Nr. 110404 White 7, causing Oblt. Franz Schall to bail out. Kenny then photographed the empty Me 262. These photos show the features of the kommando's aircraft: 1. very dark upper camouflage (including the forward nacelle cowls) whose demarcation with the RLM undersides is very low on the fuselage; 2. the individual aircraft numeral on the nose signifying a training or proving unit; and 3. the absence of the yellow band on the rear fuselage that indicates a unit is converting pilots to fly jets.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=828

38. Oblt. Franz Schall, staffelkapitan of 2./Kdo. Nowotny stands in front of his Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110479 White 1 conversing with his crew chief. Because this aircraft was damaged on 28 October, Schall was flying White 7 on 8 November.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=829

39. Ofw. Helmut Baudach of 2./Kdo. Nowotny stands in front of what appears to be White 6.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=830

40. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110389 White 2 was being flown by Ltn. Herbert Spangenberg of 1./Kdo. Nowotny out of Achmer on 6 November 1944, when after combat with a P-51 of 357th FG, he ran out of fuel and attempted a notlandung at the factory airfield of Weser Flugzeugwerke at Lehmwerder. He was fired at by German flak on approach and overshot, crashing into a shack causing 50 % damage. Note that the yellow band has been overpainted.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=831

41. Under sheer speculation, these may be White 11 and White 10 of Kommando Nowotny.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 8th December 2021, 10:54
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 609
Karoband will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=832

42. An air-to-air photo of Major Erich Hohagen flying the now Me 262 A-1a (two white gun rectangles) W.Nr. 170071 White 2 of III./EJG 2 at Lechfeld on 15 November 1944. (See O'Connell, pp. 54-55.) Note the natural metal forward nacelle cowl characteristic of aircraft of III./EJG 2.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=833

43. A line-up of aircraft of III./EJG 2: Me 262 A-1a White 10 possibly W.Nr. 110926; White 9 possibly W.Nr. 111617 and White 6 possibly 170054. As sheer speculation, these three may be the aircraft at the far end of the line-up of kaulquappe-tailed Me 262s at Lechfeld.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=834

44. Me 262 A-1a W. 110956 White 17 captured at Lechfeld at the end of April 1945.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=835

45. This is a colour photo of the fuselage of Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 110530 White 26 of 10./EJG 2 that made a notlandung on 6 February 1945 northeast of Landshut. (See O'Connell, p.85).


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=836

46. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 111857 was found at Innsbruck-Hotting in May 1945. It had been listed as with JV44 at München-Riem on 26 April 1945. However the natural metal forward nacelle cowls indicate that it was originally with III./EJG 2 and the photo shows where the numeral on the nose was painted over. O'Connell, p. 140, suggests it had been White 5. "Ferried from München-Riem by Obstlt. Heinz Bär on 1 or 2 May 1945."

Last edited by Karoband; 8th December 2021 at 12:06.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 15th December 2021, 12:05
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 609
Karoband will become famous soon enough
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=839

47. Me 262 A-1a/Jabo possibly W.Nr. 110608 Green 5 beneath an unknown wappen. Note the bomb racks. Possibly an aircraft of Kommando Stamp testing in January 1945 the dropping of bombs on bomber formations from outside the effective 1000 m. defensive fire radius.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=840

48. Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 111994 Black Chevron Green 3 of Stabstaffel/JG 7. Note the W.Gr. 21 rocket launcher tested in February 1945 to attack bomber formations from outside the 1000 m. radius.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=841

49. Me 262 A-1a (identity unknown to me) Kommandeur Chevrons Green 1 of I./JG 7 again with W.Gr. 21 rocket launchers.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=842

50. Me 262 A-1a/R (identity unknown to me) White 7 of III./JG 7 with 24 unguided R4M air-to-air missiles, used successfully in March 1945 to a ttack bomber formations from outside the 1000 m. radius.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....&pictureid=843

51. A close-up of a R4M wooden rack on the wing of an Me 262.

Last edited by Karoband; 19th December 2021 at 08:19. Reason: addition of possible werknummer
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 15th December 2021, 22:39
Dan O'Connell Dan O'Connell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon, USA
Posts: 519
Dan O'Connell is on a distinguished road
Re: Some enlarged and 'tweaked' known photos of Me 262s

Photo 47 is red 5.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net