II/JG3 losses 3 October 1943

[keith A]

Can anyone give me details of this units losses on 3 October. According to FCWD they encountered Ramrod 257 and engaged the Hornchurch Wing.

regards

Keith

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Good question. Here is what is in the corresponding Jagdfliegerverbände book by Prien and co:

Claims:
5./JG 3 Hptm. Joachim Kirschner Spitfire ( 174.) 12.24 PIQu. 05 Ost S / GJ-6, westlich Zandvoort 2137 B
4./JG 3 FhjFw. Hans Frese Spitfire (43.) 12.30 PIQu. 05 Ost S / GK-8. Schiphol 2138 B
5./JG 3 Obfw. Wemer Kloß P-47 (15.) 12.36 PIQu. 05 Ost S / GJ-4/4, westl. Zandvoort 2139 B

Losses
Stab/JG 3 N.N. Luftkampf, Notlandung, Bovenkerk, 65% Bf 109 G-6 WNr 26017
Stab/JG 3 N.N. Luftkampf, Notlandung, Schipol, 30% Bf 109 G-6 WNr 26027
4./JG 3 N.N. Luftkampf, Notlandung, Bovenkerk, 65% Bf 109 G-6 WNr 20617
II./JG 3 N.N. Luftkampf, Absturz bei Amstelveen, FSA, 100M BF 109 G-6 WNr 19912

The first and third entries seem to be the same. The list of crashed in Netherlands have only two JG 3 aircraft that day, 26017 at Bovenkerk and 19912 at Amstelveen (the latter at 1225 hrs).

So we have either 3 or 2 total losses.

To confuse things a little more, the Luftwaffe losses summary database had for this day 1 aircraft destroyed and 1 damaged for Stab./JG 3 and 3 aircraft destroyed for II./JG 3, for a total of 4 destroyed. All were due to gunfire of enemy aircraft.

[Rottler]

Hello Laurent,

this database corresponds with the Gen.Qu. loss reports for 3 October 1943. There are listed:

Stab/JG 3

Feindflug Schiphol Luftkampf (F. unverletzt) Bf 109 G-6 26017 100%

Feindflug Schiphol Luftkampf Bf 109 G-6 26027 30%

II./JG 3

Feindflug Amstelveen Absturz nach Luftkampf (F mit Fallschirm abgesprungen, unverletzt)
Bf 109 G-6 19912 100%

Feindflug Bovenkerk Notlandung nach Luftkampf Bf 109 G-6 26017 65%
According to JFV Vol. 10/II typo, correct is 20617

Feindflug Gelsenkirchen Absturz nach Luftkampf Bf 109 G-5 26096 100% Fw Alfred Kalitta verletzt.
According to JFV Vol. 10/II: correct is loss on 4 October 1943 6./JG 3 Fw Alfred Kalitta verletzt Luftkampf, Absturz bei Geilenkirchen, 99% Bf 109 G-5 26096 gelbe 6.

Regards
Leo

[keith A]

Many thanks chaps

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks Leo for the detailled answer