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  #1  
Old 20th September 2011, 16:03
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

Good afternoon,

I am trying to gather information on a German aircraft that crashed on 27 March 1944, during the USAF raid.

This aircraft crashed in Benejacq forest, between Pau and Lourdes (south West of France) Its pilot was killed and it was definitely a German aircraft.
JG101 was based in Pau, at that time.

Any information (A/C type, pilot's name, etc..) shall be welcome.

Thanks a lot

GC
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Old 20th September 2011, 19:14
Khorat Khorat is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

So I see JG 101 had several losses at the ground that day, but can´t find any loss in aerial combat, but there was several other combat losses in france that day, will see if one of the given crash places is in the area you mentioned.
khorat
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Old 20th September 2011, 22:03
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

Thank you for trying, Khorat

GC
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Old 21st September 2011, 00:01
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

I have the following losses from Fl.Pl. Pau on 27-Mar plus an FW from Jgr.West. Could that be the loss you're looking for?

Ar 68F, 1961, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 35%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-3, 5267, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 100%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-1, 1248, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 10%, H, , ,
Ju W 34, 1531, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 30%, H, , ,
Ar 68C, 1225, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 15%, H, , ,
Ar 68E, 1552, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 15%, H, , ,
Ar 68F, 1956, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 40%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-1, 4401, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 100%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-3, 4175, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 100%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-3, 4331, ./., , , , JG 101, , , SW+AE, , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, Menke, Fl.Pl. Pau, 80%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-1, 4404, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 100%, H, , ,
Ar 68F, 1607, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 100%, H, , ,
Ar 66C, 0026, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 20%, H, , ,
Ar 66C, 0949, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 20%, H, , ,
Ar 66C, 0939, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 15%, H, , ,
Ar 66C, 0058, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 100%, H, , ,
Bf 108B, 2025, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 40%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-3, 3462, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., WNr. 4362?, Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 100%, H, , ,
Ju 160, , ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 10%, H, , ,
Ar 96B-3, 5047, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.-Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 25%, H, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 2006, ./., , , , JG 101, , , , , 27-Mar-44, Bombenwurf., , Lfl.3/FR, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/778, Flzg.Unfälle und Verluste bei Schulen und usw., p.112, , Fl.Pl. Pau, 10%, H, , ,

FW 190A-5, 5862, Schönrock, Fw. Hans-Udo, , , , JGr.West, , , , , 27-Mar-44, KIA due to Luftkampf., , FR, Rodeike, Focke Wulf Jagdflugzeug, p.149, , La Croix, 100%, F, , ,
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Old 21st September 2011, 11:33
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

mmmm.. thank you very much, Jim, it looks like the last one should be the good one.

However, a couple of things are not clear to me: can you help ?

FW 190A-5, 5862, clear
Schönrock, Fw. Hans-Udo, , , , not clear: Schonrock is the family name and Hans Udo the first name ?
JGr.West, , , , , 27-Mar-44, KIA due to Luftkampf., , FR, clear
Rodeike, what does this word mean ?
Focke Wulf Jagdflugzeug, p.149, is it the source ?(the name of a book?)
La Croix, 100%, clear
F, what does "F" mean ?


I will appreciate anybody able to bring some lights on the items hereabove and thanks again, Jim.

GC
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Old 21st September 2011, 11:41
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

3 Parts from this aircraft and also a medal found on the same place:

GC

Last edited by gilles collaveri; 2nd May 2012 at 15:07.
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Old 21st September 2011, 11:46
Khorat Khorat is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

Hi Gilles,
thats my favorite too - Fw. Hans-Udo Schönrock (Hans-Udo first name), it mentioned in the Rodeike book about the Fw 190 at page 149, and also find in our loss database. F - I think it means Feindlug - combat mission, you will find F or H - H stand for non combat flight.

Kind regards
Michael
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Old 21st September 2011, 11:57
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

great, thanks Michael, & have a nice day.

GC

PS : attached two more parts from this A/C.

Last edited by gilles collaveri; 2nd May 2012 at 15:07.
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  #9  
Old 21st September 2011, 12:40
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

Gilles,
The last photograph on the first batch seems to be a particular TALISMAN from the pilot...
Rodeike is the writer of the book, as Khorat answered.
Great discovery...thanks for sharing.
Adriano
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Old 21st September 2011, 12:50
gilles collaveri gilles collaveri is offline
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Re: crash on 27 March 1944 between Pau and Lourdes

Thanks for your comment Adriano.

Here is the other side of the medal, and hereunder an explanation of it by a German friend. I thought it may be of interest to you. We also found several Germaon coins.

Best regards

Gilles

The owner of the medal was quite probably fond of mountain walking or climbing, or maybe his home was situated within the area of today´s Czech Republic;
The Riesengebirge (litterally: Giant Mountains) is a chain of mountains situated half-way between Prague and Bratislava. I assume the peaks of these mountains (of which the Schneekoppe [literally: Snowy Peak] is the highest one with 1605 metres) mark the borderline between Poland and the Czech Republic for some 80-100 kilometres.
Ruebezahl is a mythical spirit who takes the custody of the Riesengebirge, representing the natural, untouched and genuine characteristics of the area with his old age, his poor clothing, his long beard and his crutch, resembling a typical inhabitant of the area in times when his myth was generated.

Last edited by gilles collaveri; 2nd May 2012 at 15:07.
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