P-51s vs FW-190s on 20/1/45 N. of Regensburg

[Frank Olynyk]

Just for the heck of it, I thought I would post what Art's combat reports state about time and location.

June 24, 1944, 0950 hours, Ploesti, Me-109 prob
June 28, 1944, 1005 hours, Bucharest, Me-109
June 28, 1944, 1012 hours, Bucharest, Me-109
July 9, 1944, 1015 hours, 10 m S of Ploesti, Me-109
July 26, 1944, 1115 hours, S of Vienna, FW-190
July 26, 1944, 1135 hours, 30-40 m S of Lake Balaton, Me-109
Sept 15, 1944, 0920 hours, Megara A/D (Greece), Ju-52
Oct 12, 1944, 1420 hours, Coskvar (?) A/D (Hungary), He-111
Jan 20, 1945, 1300 hours, N of Regensburg, FW-190

In all but one case he was flying a P-51 coded 35 (but see his earlier post about his aircraft). The exception is Oct 12, when he flew #11 (see Art's post below).

Frank.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Art,
Could you post your Combat reports as you suggested? Yes, it would be very nice to read them and compare with the German side.
Frank, thanks for adding more details of Sir Art Fiedler to the forum; principally the HOUR of combat flights and place. It would be easier now to cross-check Luftwaffe files and losses.
Sincerely yours
Adriano

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by mayfair35

In addition, because of this forum, I have looked more carefully at my encounter reports and my Form 5. They are often incorrect. My probable victory on 24 June was over Jugoslavia but Intelligence wrote it up that I was over Ploesti and in a flight of four! I never got to Roumania and was all alone when I encountered the 109s. I hope the info in my Form 5 (flight record) is more accurate. I know how the problems occurred. At mission debriefing, they took notes which sometimes were not transcribed for a week or more. Since we never saw the reports, we did not have an opportunity to correct them. I wished now that I had insisted on seeing them.

This is a very important statement and I would appreciate if you could point out all the mistakes in Encounter Reports. Also, I am very interested what kind of paperwork you had to file from the morning till the night - I mean here reception of an aircraft, log book entry or whatever.
Thank you

[NickM]

Originally Posted by mayfair35

A
TO NICKM: I reread the article about Bob Goebel's victory over Ploesti on July 3, 1944 and compared it with his book. They track quite closely. FYI, Bob was credited with Me-109s on May 29, June 23, and a probable on July 2 in 1944. On May 27 he was credited with a Me-110.
July 3rd was his 42nd mission. Approaching Ploesti he spotted a gaggle of 15 Me-109s @ an estimated 26,000 feet. He states that two of them were close at his 1:00 o'clock. He attacked and tacked on the tail of a Me-109 that went vertical into what he terms a "kind of Cuban 8" and Bob followed him. He believes the Me-109 was using negative G evasive maneuvers. Bob finally got in a good burst on the fuselage and right wing following which the Me pilot bailed out. Bob then switched off his guns and using the camera, took a picture of the Me pilot in his parachute.
Hartmann tells the story in much the same way, although he states he had the low fuel light come on when he bailed out. He did not think much of Bob's shooting! Bob's film showed the hits and the pilot in his chute. As Bob flew by him, he raised his hand in a type of salute and took off. Hartmann tells of the pilot raising his hand but then says, "He registered an ugly face and then the American was gone." I wonder what "face" he could see with Bob's oxygen mask in place as we did not take our masks off from the beginning of the flight until home - our microphone was in the mask. The article states that Hartmann was shot down at least 14 times and although he claimed several P-51s, he is credited with 2 P-51 victories. I have read that he overclaimed, but it distresses me to see people questioning some victories after the pilot is dead. That is what happened with the Yamamoto shoot down also.
I believe Hartmann shot down a 325th P-51 as I recall reading a story about him in which he describes a P-51 blowing up and seeing yellow and black checkertail pieces all over the sky. Over Budapest, I was leading an element when the flight leader's wingman accidentally chopped off his tail. I could not believe how much of the sky was covered by the black and yellow checkertails so I believe the victory claimed by Hartmann was undoubtedly correct. If I had the date of this victory, I could check the name of our pilot.

Cordially, Art Fiedler

Art:

Thanks, NOW I remember that entry in Bob Goebel's bio! Funny it seemed so much longer in Hartmann's bio than in Goebel's; anyways, I guess I should have sprang for that Mag while I was at the airport eh?

Thanks a bunch...

NickM

[mayfair35]

Mr. Frank Olynyk
I hope everyone on this board is aware of the unbelievable job you did in listing the USAF victories during WW II. Your book is the one that everyone refers to when there is a question. When I sent an inquiry to the history section at Maxwell AFB, they quoted you as the AF position. During an AFAA reunion in I believe Tucson, I had the privilege of meeting you for a few short moments. I salute you for the absolutely outstanding book you produced.
As you know, the write-up for my 24 June '44 probable was completely wrong which may be due to the fact that no mission credit was given unless we reached 300 miles from the base. I do not know exactly how far I flew, but in my case they had to credit me with a mission otherwise how could I have gotten a probable? Thus the credit for reaching Ploesti!
A rather humours incident in conjuntion with my 3rd (?) victory: I was assigned to fly Herschel Green's bird (#11) and his crew chief was not happy about it. In fact as he was strapping me in, he told me."Best you bring this bird back in one piece, Lt.!" When I came in, did my victory roll and taxied into his revetment, he could not wait to get up on the wing, and gushed, "You can fly this airplane anytime you want, Lt.!" Of course that was the one and only time I did. I guess that was an example of how to win friends and influence people!
Cordially, Art Fiedler

[Frank Olynyk]

Art,

Many thanks for your kind words. I have in fact published Victory Lists for all the US services and all its wars. Hopefully I can get them back in print "real soon now".

I remember us meeting, but it must have been at Mesa (closing of the Champlin Fighter Museum?) because I do not think the AFAA has ever met in Tucson -- the Champlin Fighter Museum was always available.

Perhaps we can meet again at another convention. Or perhaps in Sept at the Gathering of Mustangs and Legends in Columbus, Ohio.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[mayfair35]

Mr. Olynyk,
Glad to hear you are going to get your books republished. When you get the one on the WWII USAF in the MTO done, please let me know. I would love to get a copy of it.
Cordially, Art Fiedler

[mayfair35]

Hi Adriano,
For some reason, your photo request did not show up on the screen but did when I downloaded your message. For some reason I cannot find a method of attaching a photo on this site. I have read Ruy's instructions but unfortunately have been unable to find the places he refers to. Will have to try something else. However I was able to send a couple of WWII pictures to an individual from this board who E-mailed me. So that worked. If you want to Email me, I can send some pics that way or you can wait and see if I can work out the attachment thing. It is hell to get old. Seems like it becomes more and more difficult to do something as simple as this should be to do.
My Email is mayfair35@aol.com.
Cordially, Art

[Ruy Horta]

Art,

Make sure that you are using the advanced message editor when you follow the attachement instructions, the Quick Reply option doesn't have an upload capability.

Either use the Post Reply option, which starts the full message editor, or when in Quick Reply mode click Go Advanced, which will also start the full message editor.

Should work.

I've got another option that's still dormant, but which I may bring online.

[mayfair35]

Ruy,
I appreciate your assistance. At my age, one wonders if he is just plain stupid or the old age is coming on. Thanks, I wanted to send Adriano a couple of shots from those days.
Cordially, Art