Rolf Pingel

[focusfocus]

Hello

Thank you if you can correct and complete.

6 claims with Bf.109 A
17 claims with Bf.109 E
5 claims with Bf.109 F

(-)05/06/37=I-15 (Curtis)...(a)
(1.)08/07/37=SB-2 (Martin) "Aranjuez"...(b)
(2.)12/07/37=SB-2 (Martin) "Avila"...(b)
(3.)12/07/37=I-16 (Rata) "N.Madrid"...(b)
(4.)16/07/37=I-16 (Rata) "Aranjuez"...(b)
(5.)22/08/37=I-16 (Rata) "San-Vicente"...(b)
(6.)10/09/39)=Mureaux 113 n°4 "Ensheim" G.A.O 1/506
(7.)30/09/39= Battle "Saarbrucken" 150° Sqd. (K9387 or K9484,N2028,N2093)
(-)14/05/40=Bloch 151 "Sedan" 11.20...(a)
(-)14/05/40=Bloch 151 "Sedan" 11.22...(a)
(8.)14/05/40=Blenheim "Sedan" 16.30 114°Sqd or 139° Sqd,21° Sqd.
(9.)26/05/40=Hurricane "Vouzier" 09.50 73° Sqd (TP°K)
(10.)11/06/40=MS.406 "Epernay" GC I/6...(c.)
(11.)11/06/40=MS.406 "Epernay" GC I/6...(c.)
(-)15/08/40=Hurricane...(a)
(12.)18/08/40=Spitfire "Isle of Wight" 15.32 (602° Sqd,605° Sqd,43° Sqd)...(d)
(13.)29/08/40=Spitfire "Dungeness" 20.06 (85° Sqd,501° Sqd,603° Sqd)
(14.)29/08/40=Spitfire "Dungeness" 20.07 (85° Sqd,501° Sqd,603° Sqd)
(-)31/08/40=Spitfire "S.London" 18.45...(a)
(15.)07/09/40=Spitfire "Tonbridge" 19.25...(b)
(16.)14/09/40=Hurricane "S.Maidstone" (73° Sqd,253° Sqd ??)
(17.)28/09/40=Hurricane "Maidstone" 14.40 (249° Sqd)...(d)
(-)05/11/40=Spitfire "Gravesend" 17.05...(a)
(18.)16/06/41=Blenheim "S.Boulogne" 16.35 (59° Sqd Z3073 or Z3339)
(19.)16/06/41=Spitfire "S.Dungeness"" 16.52...(b)
(20.)22/06/41=Spitfire "W.Dunkerque" 16.10 (609° Sqd ??,611° Sqd ??)...(e)
(21.)27/06/41=Spitfire "Roubaix" 21.43...(e)
(22.)02/07/41=Hurricane "S.Dunkerque" 12.50 (71°Sqd,Z3094)

(a)="nicht bestatigt"
(b)=unknown
(c)=maybe underestimated (3 german claims for 5 french losses)
(d)=shared ?
(e)=uncertain

Total=13 "abschusse"+ 9 uncertain+ 6 not approved.

Regards
Michel

[Nick Hector]

Hope this helps

Rolf Pingel

SPAIN

1st claim
5.6.37
I-15 ("Curtiss")
Was this Tomas Baquedano Moreno of the Basque Esc. shot down soon after take off at Somorrostro? Murdered in parachute (CO of 22 Escuadrilla after Crespo)

2nd claim
8.7.37/after 1805
SB-2
Madrid/Aranjuez
Hoeness also claimed.
Grupo 12? Both pilots actually attacked the same machine (slight overclaiming). Crew believed KIA. Did the crew include Alexis T Chercassof? (said to be shot down in an SB by Fiats on 7.7.37 over Brunete, baled out POW?

3rd claim
12.7.37
SB-2
Segovia, 50 km N of Villanueva de la Canada
Grupo 12? Navigator of this one, Viktor Grigorevich Lebedev, was KIA. Also, Enrique Basanta suffered an accident trying to land with damage in Sisante after combat in Villanueva de la Canada

4th claim
12.7.37
I-16 Type 5 "Rata"
I-16 pilots Miniaev (4 Esc, KIA) and Baumler lost this date plus also possibly I-15 pilot Bozhko Petrovic in CA-118 of 1 Esc. Chatos and definitely I-15 pilots I Karpov and Sheliganov (both also from 1 Esc)

5th claim
16.7.37
I-16 Type 5 "Rata"
Aranjuez/Fuenlabrada
Russian volunteer Mikhail Yakolevich Fedulov KIA

6th claim
22.8.37
I-16 Type 5 "Rata"
4? I-16 were shot down in northern front, one republican pilot died and the other was saved by parachute atributed to germans, I-16 Boris Aleksandrovich Smirnov shot down, pilot wounded in the crash. Also lost two I-15s lost this date: Miguel Galindo Saura WIA-POW over Cantabria and Angel Martin Gonzalez over Vega de Pas, 20Km S of Santander (some sources say he was lost 12.8.37)

WORLD WAR TWO

7th claim
Mureaux 113
Near Ensdorf
No.4 of GAO 1./506, Lt. G Leleu and Sous Lt. Moll both KIA

8th claim
30.9.39/1150
Battle I
W of Saarbruecken
This one said to be K9484/JN- of 150 sqn. P/O J R Saunders and AC 1 D L Thomas both KIA, Sgt. G J Springett POW

9th, 10th and 11th claims
14.5.40
2 x MB151s and a Blenheim
Details pending

12th claim
26.5.40/1055
Hurricane I
Chuffily-Roche, NW of Vouziers
Serial unknown/TP-H of 73 sqn. P/O Frank Sydenham KIA

13th claim
11.6.40/1155
MS 406
Reims-Epernay
No. 821 of GC I/6. Capt. Lefoyer baled out WIA near Loivre, 10km N of Reims

14th claim
11.6.40/1210
D.520
Reims-Epernay
No. 49 of GC I/6. Cne Rivals de Mazeres WIA near Epernay

15th claim
15.8.40
Hurricane
Possibly 234 sqn, either R6988 of P/O C H Hight (NZ) KIA, R6985 of P/O V Parker POW or P9363 of unknown pilot damaged. Possibly also claimed against 152 sqn. Three losses: K9954 of F/L B P A Boitel-Gill made it back to base safely, aircraft written off; R6910 of P/O H J Akroyd made it back to base severely damaged; R6968 of unknown pilot, also damaged

16th claim
18.8.40/1532
266 sqn? They certainly lost X4061 and X4066 Destroyed on the ground during a strafing attack at this time….

17th and 18 claims
29.8.40/2006 and 2007
2 x Spitfires
Dungeness
Judging by timings alone, were these actually the two 501 sqn Hurricanes lost at 1920-1930 BT? R4223 of Sgt. William J Green baled out, rescued safely plus P3102 of F/L John Albert Axel Gibson (NZ) baled out slightly WIA

19th claim
31.8.40/1845
Spitfire
S of London @ 5000m
Fighter Command lost 39 planes with 14 pilots KIA

20th claim
7.9.40/1925
Spitfire
Tonbridge
41 and 222 "Natal" sqns. Only loss was Sgt. J McAdam of 41, pilot safe P9340 written off

21st claim
14.9.40/1650
Hurricane I
SE of Maidstone
253 sqn. Overclaiming, only 2 losses: P3804 of Sgt. J A Anderson, WIA and P5184 (Sgt. William Burley Higgins, KIA?)
(versus 4 claims)

22nd claim
28.9.40/1440
Hurricane I
Maidstone
Believed to be V6617/GN-R of 249 sqn. P/O Albert Gerald Lewis WIA (time doesn't quite match up exactly)

23rd claim
5.11.40
Spitfire IIA
E of Gravesend
9 sqn. Either P7427 of F/S George "Grumpy" Unwin safe or P7545 of P/O Frantisek Hradil, KIA

24th claim
16.6.41/1635
Blenheim IV
SE of Boulogne
59 sqn. 2 losses: V6386/TR-G of P/O P P Villa POW but crew all KIA and TR-Y of P/O D E Kennedy and crew all POW
(the other was claimed by Priller)

25th claim
16.6.41/1652
Spitfire
S of Dungeness
74 and 92 sqns. Both unit CO's were forced to crashland on the English coast: W3174 of 74 sqn. S/L John Colin Mungo-Park and R7218 of F/L C B F Kingcombe both safe

26th claim
22.6.41/1610
Spitfire V
W of Dunkirk
609 and 611 sqn, losses were: PR-T of 609 "West Riding" sqn, P/O F X E de Spirlet WIA, R6923 of 92 "East India" sqn and R7209 of 611 sqn, F/O P S C Pollard KIA. W3215 of 609 sqn was damaged, Sgt
T C Rigler safe

27th claim
27.6.41/2143
Spitfire V
near Roubaix
Believed to be X4668/E of 74 sqn. F/L John Colin Mungo-Park DFC KIA

28th claim
2.7.41/1250
Hurricane IIB
S of Dunkirk
Z3094 of 71 "Eagle" sqn. P/O W I or W T Hall WIA-POW

[focusfocus]

Hi Nick

Thanks for the list.

27/06/41:no plane crashed around Roubaix
I doubt that his claim is Mungo-Park,his plane crashed at Adinkerke (Belgium):distance Roubaix/Adinkerke= around 60 km.

The other losses that day:
19° Sqd (P7813) around St Omer
74° Sqd (W3252) near St Omer
74° Sqd (W3210) over sea
All these losses are the claims of Priller,Held,Jackell,and Siegfried Schnell.

Michel

[Stig Jarlevik]

Michel

I am interested in your source which states Pingel had six unconfirmed claims.

I know I frequently quote Johannes and his lists, but so far I find them quite accurate, hence my question to Nick

You include a claim from 15.8.1940 which Johannes does not list (and Michel says was unconfirmed).

What is your source it was confirmed?

Finally, John Foreman, seems to be convinced that the four losses sustained by No 74 Sq on 27.6.1941 were scored by Siegfried Schnell (2), Josef Priller (1) and Rolf Pingel (1). Possibly Pingel claimed P/O Mould who actually made it back to base where he crashlanded, injured. Foreman lists Schnell as the most likely pilot shooting down Mungo-Parks.

The other German pilots listed by Michel both claimed against other oponents in different combats.

Cheers
Stig

[focusfocus]

Stig

My sources (for Spain) are among many:Ries/Ring (Legion condor),Surficity.kund.dained.se....etc etc

05/06/37:as the source over,that claim is not in the list of claims (bestatigt) established by Georg Fleischmann(KIA 30/04/40)
I "investigated":there is a big probability (not to say certain) that Toma Baquero Moreno was shot down by Bruno Montegnacco (26° Squadriglia) who claim a Curtis at "Castro Urdiales" distant of 7/8 km of San Juan Somorrostro.

For the others:J.Prien
14/05/40:annotated without B (for Bestatigt),with reason because no Bloch shot down in the region of Sedan (place of the claims of Pingel).

15/08/40:always J.Prien (no B) + Battle of Britain combat archive(no mention of a claim that day).

27/06/41:the other combat that I have (source J.L Roba) is the one from 16.00/17.00 with these losses:
19° Sqd (P7379) around Calais
266° Sqd (P8188) dunkerque
266° Sqd (P8185) over sea

claimed by Ebersberger 16.59 "Marquise" and Schopfel 17.05

I forgot Balthasar (one spit) in the combat around 22.00:so 6 claims (exept that of Pingel) for 4/5 (?) losses .

In summary:
Priller,claim 22.00
Held,claim 22.07
Jackel,claim 22.10
Schnell(2),claims 21.30,21.30
Balthasar ,claim 22.03

sources:Prien and Caldwell

michel

[rof120]

There is an error somewhere.

I know almost nothing on fighter pilot Rolf Pingel but I know that there was a terrific air battle on May 14, 1940, in the Sedan area. Almost 180 aircraft were shot down there on this day (British, German and French aircraft) including by Flak, especially bombers, mainly "Battles".

I started a long thread including precisely on this subject - the air battle of Sedan - in the Allied forum (today on page 1 again). Have a look:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=55141&page=5

Here is a relevant excerpt:

[u]French fighter losses and victories on May 14, 1940/U]

Units------------- Losses----------- Victories

GC I/1----------- 1 MB 152-------- 5 Me 110
GC II/1---------- 5 MB 152-------- 2 Ju 87 – 1 Hs 126 – 1 Me 109 – 4 Me 110 (total 8 victories)
GC II/2---------- 1 MS 406-------- none
GC III/2--------- 0 MS 406-------- 3 He 111
GC I/3----------- 2 D.520--------- 2 Do 17 – 2 He 111 – 2 Me 109 – 4 Me 110 totalling 10 victories
GC II/4---------- 1 Curtiss-------- 1 Me 110
GC I/5----------- 1 Curtiss-------- none*
GC II/5---------- 1 Curtiss-------- 1 Me 109 – 2 Me 110
GC II/6---------- 3 MS 406-------- none
GC III/6--------- 1 MS 406-------- 2 He 111
GC III/7----------0 MS 406---------4 Hs 126
GC I/8----------- 1 MB 152-------- 1 Me 109
GC II/8-----------0 MB 152-------- 2 He 111
GC II/10-------- 3 MB 152-------- none
GC III/10--------3 MB 152-------- 1 Do 17 – 5 Me 109
ECMJ 1/16-------1 Potez 631------none

So on this day alone the 6 Bloch 152 units engaged (corresponding roughly to 12 RAF fighter squadrons) lost at least 13 of these fighters. Add 3 Curtiss H-75s for both types looked very similar in flight and German aircrew including fighter pilots often misidentified one of these types for the other. So the Armée de l'Air lost at least 16 fighters equipped with radial engines on May 14, 1940, in the huge Sedan air battle. 4 more Bloch 152s were lost on May 15.

Today I added 4 Henschel 126 close-recce AC shot down by GC III/7 (Morane 406) in the Sedan area. A "French" (???) nuts claimed that GC III/7's experienced pilots including a captain and several future aces made some terrible mistakes in the course of about 31 minutes and did not shoot down one single Hs 126s but rather 3 RAF Fairey "Battles" and one… twin-engined, twin-fin French bomber LeO 45, and then falsified the official documents in order to conceal their errors (captain Bouvarre too). Peter Cornwell followed this "noted French historian" (sic) blindly and abstained from taking any victory won by GC III/7 on this day into account. I understand he came round in the meantime, understood that this false historian was nuts and regretted his terrible mistakes - but too late. A clear statement by him would be most welcome.

As most of you know the German Hs 126 had a high wing, a radial engine, a conspicuous fixed undercarriage (NOT retractable) and no long, glazed cockpit (it had a crew of 2). It was impossible to think that a Fairey "Battle" was a Hs 126 for it had an inline-engine in a pointed, aerodynamic cowling (like a Hurricane or a Spitfire), a LOW WING, a retractable landing gear and a conspicuous long, glazed cockpit for a crew of 3. I'll make no comment on the big, twin-engined, twin-fin bomber LeO 45 misidentified for a Hs 126... What's more, the mission of GC III/7 lasted for no less than 31 minutes in the battle area and the 7 pilots had plenty of time to look at their quarries and clearly identify them as German with large time intervals, one by one.

On this same day the RAF lost 52 bombers (including 33 "Battles"), the French lost 4 (they lost much more than this on other days). The RAF lost approximately 32 fighters (the full complement of 2 squadrons) and the French 24 various fighters. German losses to RAF fighters and other AC are not known exactly (not to me) but at least 20 is a reasonable evaluation.

So the grand total of aircraft losses in the Sedan air battle on May 14, 1940, is as follows:

52 + 32 = at least 84 British aircraft

24 + 4 = at least 28 French AC

At least 45 German AC were destroyed by French fighters and at least 20 more by RAF fighters, bombers etc.

So the grand total including German losses is AT LEAST 177 aircraft of all kinds. This includes no less than 16 radial-engine French fighters (13 Bloch 152s and 3 Curtiss H-75s). As you know badly damaged AC often came back to base or were otherwise saved but actually they had to be considered unfit for combat or even destroyed. So the loss figures have to be considered the low limits.

As you can see one French unit lost five Bloch 152s and two other units lost three each, which makes Pingel's claims fully possible.

Hence it is fully possible that Pingel really won two victories on Bloch 152s. It is possible too that these victories were overclaims in good faith and were not officially confirmed by RLM, or were actually won victories but not confirmed.

Bloch 151 or 152?

Regrettably Mr. Jochen Prien keeps mentioning all Bloch fighters, be it Bloch 151s or 152s, as "Bloch 151"s (and all French Curtiss fighters as P-36s, which is wrong too for they were very similar Curtiss H-75s). Bloch 151s were clearly inferior as compared with 152s (much lower speed, much weaker armament etc.) and they were not given to first-line units, as far as possible, but a few dozen were for lack (?) of better fighter types and several squadrons (flottilles) of the French Naval Aviation were equipped with 151s, in particular facing menacing Italy. Luckily the much-improved Bloch 152s were MUCH more numerous than 151s. 144 Bloch 151s (20.7 % of the total) and 556 Bloch 152s (79.3 %) were produced before the end of the fighting (I have to look more closely at these figures but they give a good idea of reality) as well as about 10-15 Bloch 155s, a further development of the 152, much improved in all respects (armoured glass-windshield, higher speed etc.). The MB 155, a good fighter, would have been mass-produced in large quantities from July 1940 on. Only a few were used in June, scoring at least one victory.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks for your sources Michel

I am pretty confident that Johannes has got it right, so I will stick to his list.

Happy New Year by the way

Cheers
Stig

[rof120]

In my preceding post (above Stig Jarlevik's) I remarked that J. Prien systematically mentioned "Bloch 151s" instead of the much better and much more numerous Bloch 152s (see JFV, purple cover, volume # 3). Sorry but my memory possibly failed me for I now wonder if Prien mentioned Bloch 150s not 151. I'm not sure (my copy of this book is still buried in some ol' moving box in spite of my heroic efforts to unearth it - they should award me at least the VC for this).

I still believe that Pingel could perfectly well have shot down two (2) MB 152s on May 14, 1940, in the Sedan area. A total of 13 fighters of this type were shot down there on this day. Conversely Bloch 152s belonging to 6 Groupes de chasse or GCs (each having a fighter complément of about twice an RAF squadron) shot down at least 16 German fighters: 7 Me 109s and 9 Me 110s, as well as 6 other German AC types: 2 Ju 87s "Stuka", 1 Hs 126, 2 He 111, 1 Do17.

CORRECTION:

I discovered that most GCs equipped with Bloch 152s had not got 25-36 aircraft but rather approximately 20-26.

So on this day, in numerous fierce air battles, Bloch 152s lost at least 13 of their number and shot down at least 16 German fighters and 6 other German AC. This fighter type was clearly not as good as the Me 109 E but obviously this does not mean that it was quite useless… The high proportion of German fighters shot down vs other types can most probably be explained by the fact that the German fighters were protecting their own bombers against Allied fighters (their presence there had no other purpose) and attacked these on any occasion but at a cost.

MB is short for Marcel Bloch (after WW II he changed his name to Marcel DASSAULT.). By 1940 he had created about half a dozen modern aircraft, of which most were absolujtely remarkable designs and gave an excellent account of themselves in combat: Bloch 152, 155 (a strongly improved 152) and 157 (1940 a fighter prototype with astounding performance like a top speed over 700 km/h measured later under German supervision; see William Green's booklet), Bloch 174, 175, 176 and 178 twin-engine recce, light bomber or assault AC (each new type being improved). As a Jew Marcel Bloch was sent by the Germans into a concentration (death) camp in Germany because he had refused to work for the German aero-industry (what a luck for the Allies). They offered to make him an "honorary Aryan" (= non-Jew, a white "nordic" person) - how ridiculous can nazis get? Other French inmates managed to make sure that he would survive because he was so important to his country and they succeeded in this. After WW II he designed the very succesful fighters Ouragan, Mystère IV, Mirage III, Mirage F1, Mirage 2000 and Rafale, thousands of which were/are used by many countries in the whole world including South America, Israel, India, Egypt and more.

The MB 152 fighter was not perfect yet (the 155 succeeded it and began equipping fighter units; it was still slightly too slow but as a whole nearly perfect) but clearly aircraft design genius Marcel Bloch had given it some excellent features even though the Me 109 was clearly better (not against Bloch 155, Arsenal VG-33 and Dewoitine 520 any more). The Sedan air battle on May 14, 1940, is an excellent example for this: Bloch 152s suffered some non-negligible losses but as a whole they put up a very good fight and shot down more German "superfighters" than they lost themselves. The MB 152 had still somewhat insufficient performance in speed etc. but this was the result of its engine's insufficient power. Marcel Bloch never designed nor produced any aero-engines (other aircraft firms in France and the UK did not either) so he was not responsible for this and his aircraft became remarkable as soon as they received good engines (Bloch 174-175-176 alresady 1940, Bloch 155 also 1940, etc.).

As compared with Bloch 151s about four times more Bloch 152s were produced (they were significantly better than 151s): approximately 556 MB 152s (roughly 79 %) vs approx. 144 MB 151s (21 %). As far as possible only 152s were sent into combat (but this was not always possible yet).

A short sidenote: even today's successful French fighter "Rafale", which is competing with all other top combat AC in the world, was designed by Marcel Bloch/Dassault before his death. He watched her roll-out and her first official presentation.