18 Nov 52 F9Fs vs Migs

[James A Pratt III]

On 18 Nov 1952 there was an air combat over the Sea of japan between F9F Panthers of VF-781 and VVS Migs. Wiki and and article in a magazine I stumbled over have Lt ER Williams downing 4 Migs.

My claims list from the American Aviation Historical Society Journal Fall 1994 has the following claims:

Lt ER Williams 2 Migs
Lt Jg DM Middleton 1 Mig
Lt jg DM Rowland 1 Mig

From my not too accurate notes from the book The Sea War in Korea MW Gagle & FA Manson have:

Williams 1-0-1
Middelton 1-0-0 (pilot ejects)
Rowland 0-0-1

Some notes from a book on Soviet aces have them downing 3 migs of the 781 IAP

Anyone have any more info on this combat.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Frank Olynyk listed four claims between 13.50 - 13.58H SE of Chongjin

Lt Williams with 1 MiG-15 and 1 damaged in F9F-5 125459
Lt Rowlands with 1 MiG-15 probable
Lt Middleton with 1 MiG-15

Thus 2-1-1

Igor Seidov (Red Devils over the Yalu) does not mention any combat with the USN on this date.

Always looking for more details on the Soviet side....so what is your source for the three 781 IAP losses?

Cheers
Stig

[Leendert]

Perhaps also have a look in the CVG-102 report for Nov 1952 here: https://www.history.navy.mil/content...ct-22nov52.pdf

Scroll down to p.6 and especially combat report starting on p.14

Regards,
Leendert

[James A Pratt III]

Source on the 781 IAP losses is probably a book on Soviet aces I can't remember the name it was something like "Stalin's Eagles".
There was a internet site that dealt with post WW II air combat that is now gone I think it mentions either 2 or 3 losses.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Leendert and James

Interesting document you found L. Clearly much more skillful than me to find such stuff.
I tried the US Navy home page and failed miserably to find any more....

I don't have any book called Stalin's Eagles so can't check that info, sorry to say.

Cheers
Stig

[Leendert]

According a website skywar-ru (used Google Translate) the shot down Mig-15s of 781 IAP were flown by Capt. Victor Belov, Sen Lt. Alexander Vandaev and Sen. Lt. Vladimir Pahomkin, all three KIA. Regiment reportedly operated from Unashi (Zolotaya Dolina) near Nakhodka at that time.

Also see https://www.history.navy.mil/about-u...5/h-075-1.html

Regards,
Leendert

[Stig Jarlevik]

Excellent Leendert, just excellent

It took a while to locate the stuff, but I found it in the end.
All new data for me plus a lot of more interesting stuff!!

Thanks again
Stig

[James A Pratt III]

The book may have been "Stalin's Falcons" by Tomas Polak and Chris Shores

Thanks for the info Leendert