Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation

Post-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation after the Second World War.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16th September 2010, 02:14
Daniel Nole Daniel Nole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56
Daniel Nole is on a distinguished road
KPAFAC victories in Korea

There are not a lot of information about the victories and score of the KPAFAC (North Korean Air Force) in the Korean war but with the publications availables we find:

-One F-82G(46-364) destroyed on the ground at K-13 Suwon , Jun 29, 1950.

-One C-54D(42-72648)Destroyed by IL-10 strike at K-13 Suwon, Jun 30, 1950.

-One B-29A (44-69866)(19th BW, 28th BS) hit and shot down by three Yak-9s near Seoul, Jul 12. 1950.

-One B-29A(44-61638)(19th BW, 30th BS) Damaged by one YaK-9, Jul 19, 1950.

-One F-80C (49-698) (8th FBG, 36th FBS)Damaged by YaK-9 fighters, and crashed 1 mi W of Taejon airfield, Jul 19, 1950.(first victory of a piston fighter againts a Jet fighter in the Korean War)

-One F-86A-5 destroyed(49-1334) and some other eight damaged by one PO-2 in Bedcheck Charlie at K-13 Suwon, Jun 17, 1951.

-One F-94B(51-5476 )in colissión with PO-2, Feb 27, 1952.

-One F-86E-10(51-2836) of the 4th FIW 336th FIS(Maj Stephen Bettinger) show down by Kim di San(actually the only victory of the KPAFAC MiG-15s)

Losses were heavy for the KPAFAC and that included :

29 Yak-9
11 IL-10
2 LA-7
3 LA-11
2 Yak-18
10 PO-2
1 IL-4(Actually a A-20 Boston of the V-VS)

Some 50 MiGs were estimated destroyed(10 to 15 in combat and operational accidents).The others were destroyed by straffing and bombing.

Some other 124 planes were destroyed at ground.

Regards

Daniel Nole

Last edited by Daniel Nole; 17th September 2010 at 00:22.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16th September 2010, 04:47
steve51 steve51 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 40
steve51 is on a distinguished road
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

Daniel Nole,

Thank you for posting that information. I've recently begun to read about the aviation history of the Korean War, and have come upon very little about the North Koreans.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16th September 2010, 13:08
Gizmo Gizmo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 119
Gizmo
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

This "Il-4" you mentioned were a VVS Douglas A-20 from 36th Mine-Torpedo Regiment of Pacyfic Fleet. On 4th September 1950 Soviet plane was shot down over sea by Ens. Edward V. Laneywere, a Corsair pilot of VF-53. Crew of three VVS aviators were all KIA.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17th September 2010, 00:18
Daniel Nole Daniel Nole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56
Daniel Nole is on a distinguished road
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

Ajha Gizmo, thanks, that match perfectly this Boston alias "IL-4" and nothing to do directly with the KPAFAC; was another of the several aircrafts shot down in the cold war.

Regards

Daniel Nole

About this incident from "Silent Warriors":

4 September 1950 A US Navy F4U-4B Corsair of VF-53, piloted by Ensign Edward V. Laney, shot down a Soviet Naval Aviation Douglas A-20 Box over the Yellow Sea, southeast of the Soviet-occupied Port Arthur Naval Base in China and west of the North Korean coast. Laney was one of a four-ship Combat Air Patrol from the carrier USS Valley Forge (part of Task Force 77), which was protecting US Navy air activity against North Korea not long before the Inchon landings. The A-20 was one of two belonging to the Port Arthur-based 36th Mine-Torpedo Aviation Regiment of the Red Banner Pacific Fleet, apparently sent out on an armed reconnaissance mission. A-20s had been supplied in quantity to the Soviets on Lend-Lease during World War 2, and this unit had had extensive experience during the war as torpedo bombers . The Corsairs encountered the two A-20s about 40 nautical miles from the Chinese coast. One A-20 turned back, but the other pressed on. As the Corsairs descended, the top turret gunner on the A-20 was observed to open fire. Richard E. Downs led Laney on a firing pass, and Laney hit the A-20 with his 20mm cannon. The Soviet aircraft then crashed into the sea. The US recovered the body of one Soviet crewman, later identified as that of Genaddiy Mishin, the copilot. The other two bodies, those of Senior Lt. Karpol, the aircraft commander, and Sgt. A. Makaganov, the gunner, were never found. Mishin's body was returned to the Soviets in 1956.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17th September 2010, 04:46
JoeB JoeB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 121
JoeB
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

I would add the following known air to air successes of the North Koreans:

-July 13, 1950: US L-5 (Stinson Sentinel liaison a/c) downed; the NK's claimed 3 victories per Seidov's book

-July 14: B-26B 44-34263 13th BS(L) damaged by Yaks (enging ko'd) landed at Taejon, later destroyed there to prevent capture. This encounter is widely written about (in exaggerated form) in NK propaganda, their leading ace Kim Gi Ok is credited.

-July 20: another B-29 was slightly damaged by Yak-9's, not seriously enough for the serial number to be recorded in USAF records.

-Sep 2 1950: an ROKAF L-5 downed according to the ROKAF official history; the only ROKAF air-air loss of the Korean War

-all three F4U air combat losses in Korea (USMC Sep 10 1952, USN Oct 4 and 7 of that year) were due to NK MiG-15's, according to the defector No Gum Suk, and NK presentation at their "Victorious Fatherland War Museum", and no Soviet or Chinese claims are known for these losses.

I would comment on Daniel's list as follows:

Jul 12 1950 B-29 44-69866: Both US and NK sources differ on the number of attacking fighters. Some NK accounts say it was Kim Gi Ok alone, others say he and Lee Don Gyu (another early NK pilot often mentioned in their accounts)

Jul 20 1953 Bettinger, was flying 51-2824, the other serial number is a mistake in the 'KORWALD' database which I assume is the source for it. The Soviets credited their pilots with 6 F-86's that day, and the Chinese probably others. This is an interesting case where we know a specific NK MiG-15 claim, but there is no assurance IMO that Kim scored this victory. One other F-86 was downed by a MiG that day, two known F-86 AA losses were suffered by fighter bomber units which by then operated F-86's, losing them frequently to AA in southern NK as they had their F-80's before that, and one unknown (from US perspective) loss, 51-2756, is documented in Soviet records as downed by their AA troops in northern NK.

It's possible NK MiG's downed other UN a/c, but there are only a small handful of known UN air combat losses in Korea not already accounted for by specific Soviet and/or Chinese claims, and some are probably accounted for by as yet unknown Chinese claims, Soviet claim info being pretty complete already, I believe. Even when and if we get full NK MiG-15 operational records, the claims will probably heavily overlap those of Soviets and Chinese, and while some may be valid victories, it will be hard to tell for sure, as in the Bettinger case.


On NK MiG-15 losses, No Kum Sok estimated 100 to all causes during the war.

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17th September 2010, 23:56
Daniel Nole Daniel Nole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56
Daniel Nole is on a distinguished road
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

Thanks Joe and very welcome additions in the thema.

Regards

Daniel
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24th September 2010, 01:58
Daniel Nole Daniel Nole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56
Daniel Nole is on a distinguished road
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

A small update: A Mustang loss in September 1950. I dont know the complete Bu number.

255(35th FIW, 39th FIS)Damaged by Yak, engine smoking, went into spin, low altitude bail out 10 mi NW of Waegwan, pilot 1th Lt Donald L.Pitchford KIA, Sep 28, 1950(F-51D)

Regards

Daniel
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26th September 2010, 00:16
JoeB JoeB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 121
JoeB
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Nole View Post
A small update: A Mustang loss in September 1950. I dont know the complete Bu number.

255(35th FIW, 39th FIS)Damaged by Yak, engine smoking, went into spin, low altitude bail out 10 mi NW of Waegwan, pilot 1th Lt Donald L.Pitchford KIA, Sep 28, 1950(F-51D)
This is in fact reported that way in the monthly unit historical report but it seemed strange since the KPAAF was pretty much non-existent at that time, and no NK propaganda account mentions this victory (all the other victories we've mentioned in the Yak period are mentioned in NK accounts or contemporary Soviet media versions of them, in some form).

Eventually I found the original combat report of this mission and the cause was unknown but likely ground fire, no enemy a/c around: probably a mixup between 'yak' and 'flak' at some point. The a/c was 44-73255, which was formally written off Oct 15.

The RAAF Mustang (44-84501/A68-757) lost July 7 is written up in some US reports as 'Yak'. It occurred at a time when the KPAAF was active, Russian reports of NK accounts say they made 2 claims that day, but the Australian combat report seems clear the loss wasn't due to enemy a/c; and the US intel summary for the day specifically says no enemy a/c were encountered at all. This is less clearcut than the Sept 28 case, but I haven't included it as a KPAAF victory either.

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15th April 2011, 15:28
Daniel Nole Daniel Nole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 56
Daniel Nole is on a distinguished road
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

A small update of KPAFAC MiGs operations.

In Oct 6, 1951, Kozedub's 324th IAD transfered his war weary MiG-15s(RD-45F engines)to the KPAFAC 435th IAD 447th Regiment. This regiment was the first MiG equipped unit of the KPAFAC and near as certain, was the unit of No Gum-suk, the North Korean defector.

The 447th Regiment was deployed at Uiju(MiGs operated in North Korea used only Uiju and a few times Sinuiju)and start operations Nov 7, 1951.

This MiGs were sighted and spotted by recce flights and at Nov 18, F-86s straffed the base destroying four of the MiGs at ground.

The 447th was then moved to Antung for avoid more losses. Other two KPAFAC regiments were formed later by June 1952 and his pilots were trained at Anshan, main center of training of the MiG pilots. Is unknown if this two regiments were declared operational before the end of the war.

About this two MiG-15 KPAFAC regiments , Zavelin had say:

I never saw Korean pilots in action. There was a division consisting of two regiments when I was the commander of the air garrison at Anshan. We flew combat missions while they trained. Kim Il Sung did not allow them to fly combat missions, because he understood that they would be torn to pieces in one week. They were organized and trained to have their own Air Forces after we withdrew our forces, as a basis for the NKAF.
They had one more division flying Tu-2s, somewhere in the rear of Chinese territory. Chinese pilots were sitting with us at the same airfields.


The base of Anshan in Manchurie was sometimes also the a center of distribution, and maintenance of the MiGs. In general all Regiment with his tour of operations ended flew to Anshan. There the planes were checked and distributed to new fresh arrived regiments. By the middle of 1952, many of the logistic functions suporting the 64th IAK was based at Antung and the new arrived regiments taked his assigned planes directly in his allocated bases Antung(Andun) Tatung-Kao(Manpo or Myaogou) or Fencheng(Dapu).Later Myaogou became the main airfield.

The KPAFAC 447th Regiment was still a Antung at the end of the war and some sources speak also of a certain number of other KPAFAC MiG pilots flying in one of the six PLAAF MiG divisions deployed about this time.

In the last day of the war and as cited by Zhang, several MiGs were crated at Antung and send smuggled by rail or boat to North Korea(near certain Uiju). One of these MiGs was the red 2057, used later by No Gum-suk in his defection. The 2057 was a recently painted North Korean number, replacing its original Soviet tactical number.

About MiG-15's markings in Korea

In the initial periode the MiGs of the 151th GIAD and the 28th IAD flew with the insignias of the PLAAF. That included a serie of red and white stripes in the rudder.
From Dec 1, 1950 all MiGs were operated with the insignias of the KPAFAC. KPAFAC Roundels were not painted in the upper wings surfaces. Red noses dont mean as in Soviet Union deployed MiGs, a Guard Regiment, was only a ID feature. PLAAF 4th FAD MiGs in this early periode flew also with KPAFAC insignias and red noses.Some planes of the V-VS 177th IAP fly with red noses, other not.
With the arrival of the Kozedub's 324th IAD , red roses were painted in all MiGs. By January 1952 no more red noses were displayed and start the experiments and test for camoufled MiGs.
PLAAF MiGs by the end of the war were painted with the CPV tittle in the nose(Chinese People's Volunteers). Insignias if displayed, were always the KPAFAC roundels.
Also PLAAF MiG-15s of aces or notoury pilots displayed stars for kill markings , like de MiGs of Wang Hai, Zao Baothong, Zhang Jihui, etc.
To this day I have nothing found about one MiG displaying a Dragon painted in the fuselage. A MiG wearing something like this was reported as shot down May 18, 1953.

Daniel

Last edited by Daniel Nole; 15th April 2011 at 16:27.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 5th December 2011, 22:36
RossGmann RossGmann is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Burpengary East, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 289
RossGmann is on a distinguished road
Re: KPAFAC victories in Korea

Here is another link http://tinyurl.com/7ct9sed not sure if it may be of help or interest.

Kind regards

Ross
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List of "aces" in Bf110 units during 1939-40 with 10 or more victories Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 24 25th August 2011 23:03
Need victory claims info for II./ZG1 later III./ZG76 Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 19 3rd August 2010 20:33
Percentage of Verifiable Victories of Various Aces –Updates & Recommendations Rob Romero Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 25 9th March 2010 02:39
1940 victories of Lt. Rolf Hermichen Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 9 16th September 2008 18:59
Rudolf Mueller: claims vs actual 'kills' Sanchez Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 26 21st December 2007 15:17


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net