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  #11  
Old 7th January 2013, 17:38
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Thanks, Andrey. I appreciate that. There is no hurry.

Larry
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  #12  
Old 20th January 2013, 13:52
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

As it turned out, successful raid against Armawir was in the evening 25.Oct.42. According to Korück 550 report, 5 a/c were destroyed, 11 heavy damaged, 6 slightly damaged.
It seems GQM returns omitted many losses/damages again.
One more proof that GQM data about ground losses are incomplete.

Best regards,
Andrey
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  #13  
Old 20th January 2013, 14:42
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Great find, Andrey, and many thanks for posting it! Yes, I have found similar cases where the total of destroyed and damaged aircraft on the ground as reported by the local Fliegerhorstkommandantur does not match the number given in the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen. In other cases, the ground losses do not appear in the Gen.Qu. lists at all or the number is changed one or more times and the new amended total does not appear in the Gen.Qu. lists. I guess the "bottom line" is that there is no 100% accurate source for losses.

Cheers,

Larry
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  #14  
Old 20th January 2013, 18:26
Monaco Monaco is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Maybe this is some surplus information:
25.10.42:
AE. Armavir; Stab/KG51; He111P-6; 2948; 100; Bombing; -; 4; ;
AE. Armavir; II./KG.51; Ju88A-4; 4018; 60; Bombing; -; 4; ;
AE. Armavir; II./KG.51; Ju88A-4; 2256; 25; Bombing; -; 4; ;
AE. Armavir; II./KG.51; Ju88A-14; 144231; 100; Bombing; -; 4; ;
AE. Armavir; II. /KG51; Ju88A-14; 144242; 100; Bombing; -; 4; ;
AE. Armavir; II./KG51; Ju88C-6; 460013; 100; Bombing; -; 4; ;
On 26.10.42:
Armavir; 7./KG.76; Ju88A-14; 4070; 20; Damage to the chassis; -; 4; ;

Just BTW were the attackers from the "night witches" from 588 NBAP?

Greets
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  #15  
Old 20th January 2013, 18:46
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco View Post
Maybe this is some surplus information:
25.10.42: ...
Thank you, I know it.
So 6 destroyed/damaged a/c in GQM against 5+11=16 in the Korück 550 report (and maybe some of slightly damaged had damages>=5%)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco View Post
Just BTW were the attackers from the "night witches" from 588 NBAP?
Greets
Don't know to date.

Best regards,
Andrey
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  #16  
Old 16th February 2013, 02:09
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

The Ju 88C-6 - WNr. 360013 vs. 460013 - I have same WNr. 460013, but there was no C-6 WNr. in the 460xxx range. The Ju 88A-14 WNr. 4070 is WNr. 144070. It may even be a Ju 88A-4.

Last edited by Jim P.; 16th February 2013 at 02:10. Reason: more
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  #17  
Old 16th February 2013, 12:08
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Thank you, Jim!
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  #18  
Old 21st June 2013, 19:47
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Hello Larry,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry deZeng View Post
Hi Andrey,

If you go to TsAMO some day ... Each folder would probably include air reconnaissance photos, agent reports, partisan reports, etc., regarding what the Germans were building on the airfield, what the condition of the airfield was, what Luftwaffe units were there and so forth.
Yesterday before leaving TsAMO found in the inventory a folder "The cards with description of the airfields" 1943 (5.VA area). I hope to order it in July. Maybe it is something like the folders in question.

Best regards,
Andrey
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  #19  
Old 21st June 2013, 19:56
Andrey Kuznetsov Andrey Kuznetsov is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Hello Monaco
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco View Post
Maybe this is some surplus information:
Just BTW were the attackers from the "night witches" from 588 NBAP?
Greets
According to operative report of 4.VA, 7 Bombers of 50.air division of ADD (Long Range Aviation) made the raid in question, not U-2, as in the Dierich's book about KG51.
They claimed 15 a/c destroyed on the Armawir airfield.

Best regards,
Andrey
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  #20  
Old 22nd June 2013, 13:51
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: KG51 and Armawir raid 4/5.Nov.42

Quote:
Yesterday before leaving TsAMO found in the inventory a folder "The cards with description of the airfields" 1943 (5.VA area). I hope to order it in July. Maybe it is something like the folders in question.
Thanks, Andrey, it will be interesting to find out what sort of information the cards contain.

Larry
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