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Old 20th July 2013, 01:24
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.09.39

Hello,

I'm seeking photos of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & PoW near Sarreguemines, France, about 2km E of Sarreguemines, France, on 24 September 1939. There was a big air battle in the area on that date, which resuted in three planes from JGr152 down in French territory. and 2-3 others that FL in German territory.

According to our EoE Luft Loss list:

"24 September 1939: 2./JGr.152 Messerschmitt Bf109D-1. Shot down by Sgt Combette of GC I/3 and forced-landed 2 km north-east of Rimling, east of Sarreguemines 12.50 p.m. FF Gefr Adolf Hesselbach captured unhurt. Aircraft Red 9 + 100% write-off. (GC I/3 doc via RS)
This aircraft was made serviceable for evaluation by the French but crashed on a test flight at Nancy on October 6. It is believed that it was subsequently repaired and passed to the RAF on 22 December, being flown from Coulommiers to Tangmere, en-route to the A&AEE Boscombe Down, by W/C J.F.X. McKenna. Grounded at Tangmere by weather and refuelling problems it never arrived at Boscombe Down and its ultimate fate is unknown. Hesselbach returned from French captivity on June 30, 1940."

This was apparently "Red 9," and there should be photos out there somewhere of this downed a/c, which I would like to profile. Can anyone supply photos of this incident or know what ultimately happened to this Bf109D-1?

Does anyone have any other photos of a/c lost on the German side that day? I have one photo of Yellow 12, from 3 Staffel, which is the same one published on P.97 of Peter Cornwell's "The Battle of France: Then and Now." This was the a/c of Lt Rosenkranz. Would appreciate additional photos of this a/c, and any others, including those down in German territory, if any are known.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
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Old 20th July 2013, 10:33
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

Hello Larry,

Maybe i,ve got a picture from the red 9 2/JG 71 W.Nr 3326 from the waffen arsenal band 87 [podzun-pallas ] .
There is also another picture from investigation by the French.

Let me know if your interessted

Regards harrie
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Old 20th July 2013, 20:49
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

harrie,

Thanx for taking the time of answer my request.

Actually, the a/c that you're talking about is "Red 9" of 2./JG51, which FL at Kirschacker", Geudertheim, 4 km SE of Brumath, Alsace, France, on September 28th. I have a number of photos of this one in the EOE photo DB, and it will likely be one of our color profile a/c. However, all of my photos show only the starboard side of the a/c, and if any of the photos to which you refer show the port side, please let me know, as I'd like a digital copy. If anyone else has a photo of the port side of this a/c, please let me know.

Still looking for photos of the 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 "Red 9" down on the Sept 24th. There have to be photos out there in French collections of this a/c.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
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Old 20th July 2013, 20:59
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

Hello,

There was another loss to JGr152 on the same day from an unknown Staffel, which we currently carry in the EoE Luft Loss DB as:

"24 September 1939: JGr.152 Messerschmitt Bf109D-1. Shot down by Adj Dardaine of GC II/4 in combat east of Hornbach, and crashed near Betviller, east of Sarreguemines 3.40 p.m. FF Oberlt Roland Borth captured badly wounded. Aircraft a write-off. (Not in QMG nor Prien)"

Does anyone know the Staffel assignment of this a/c, or have any photos of this crash?

There are photos of a MS406 unit displaying one of the crosses cut as a souvenir from one of the three JGr152 losses that day, and I'd like to locate photos of the actual wreckage of the these, including additional photos of Yellow 10 of 3 Staffel. They have to be out there somewhere. A crashed German fighter was a pretty unique event at that stage of the war, and you would have expected there to have been lots of photos taken.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
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Old 23rd July 2013, 20:16
Harrie Harrie is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

Hello Larry,

Hope this works ,i try for first time to upload pictures ,they are in the field additional options ,hope you can see.
The pictures are indeed from starboard-side .

If it not,s showing please let me know.

Regards harrie

Last edited by Harrie; 9th May 2014 at 11:49.
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Old 23rd July 2013, 20:30
Larry Hickey Larry Hickey is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

Harrie,

Thanx for taking the time to do this. These scans came out fine. Yes, these are both photos of "Red 9" of 2./JG51, FL by Uffz Georg Pavenzinger on 28.09.39. I do already have both of these in the EoE Luft Photo Data Base. A photo reference to the port-side view of this a/c would still be welcome.

We are still looking for photos of "Red 9," or any of the other JGr152 Bf109D-1s that were lost or damaged on 24.09.39.

Who can help. There must be photos of some of these out there somewhere, probably in French sources.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator


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Old 24th July 2013, 10:00
Marius Marius is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

"24 September 1939: JGr.152 Messerschmitt Bf109D-1. Shot down by Adj Dardaine of GC II/4 in combat east of Hornbach, and crashed near Betviller, east of Sarreguemines 3.40 p.m. FF Oberlt Roland Borth captured badly wounded. Aircraft a write-off. (Not in QMG nor Prien)"

Larry,
could you please give us the information regarding Olt. Borth coming from French documents only? What was there exactly noted?

I mean Adj Dardaine fought at 15.30-15.40 against Messerschmitts coming from 6./JG 53.

Regards,
Marius
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Old 24th July 2013, 23:59
Jim P. Jim P. is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

I recorded the Borth loss from Chris Shores' "Fledgling Eagles". I presume this is the same Borth as in this later loss:

Bf 109E-7, 6305, Borth, Major Roland, , III., Stab III., ZG 1, grüne A, S9+AD, , , 01-Sep-42, Gr.Kdr. WIA due to Luftkampf with 15 enemy fighters. POW, DOW 9-Sep-42., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.133; LW Colors, V.2, , östlich El Alamein, 100%, F, , ,
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Old 25th July 2013, 05:14
peter.werry peter.werry is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

Hello Larry,
Further to Harrie's post #5, There also is another photo of the starboard side of Pavenzinger's "red 9" in the Mushroom book "Fighters over France and the Low Countries" ISBN8291632717, which states that the source is "SHAA". The book has many photos of French aircraft from this source so perhaps a port view and other interesting photo s are located there. Unfortunately I do not know of SHAA, but thought I should bring it to your attention.
Regards
Peter
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Old 25th July 2013, 09:41
Marius Marius is offline
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Re: Seeking photos and ultimate fate of 2./JGr152 Bf109D-1 flown by Gefr A. Hesselbach SD & POW on the German-French border near Sarreguemines on 24.0

"I recorded the Borth loss from Chris Shores' "Fledgling Eagles"."

Maybe it is not Olt. Roland Borth on the 24.9.1939 (?). At around the same time there was recorded the loss of Olt. Heinz Barth from II./ZG 1 who crashed at Bischofstein (East Prussia).
Borth - Barth ?

Regards,
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