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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
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'Before take off I saw 7 German twin engined aircraft at an altitude of about 2,000 meters. I climbed in the direction of those seven. At an altitude of 1,500 meters I was attacked by another three aircraft of the same type.' The report is perfectly clear. Quote:
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Otherwise I see very little purpose in providing documents, as you can write such sentences whenever you wish with regard of any part of any document. For you, Polish reports are worthless in general. Quote:
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#2
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
Thnk You very mutch, Rob & Marius!
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My sourses sayd, that: Streib had no more claims with I./ZG 1, all rest - as Nacht Jager. Paul Gildner had 44 night victoryes, total 48 victoryes. So, this 4 claims MIGHT be with I./ZG 1, he was a member 3./ZG 1 at that time. Need just to check... Knacke had 44 night kills too, and he was a 3./ZG 1 member too. But I have no info about his TOTAL score. Salute all!
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Went to war. |
#3
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
Eugen,
Try to get hold of Die Ritterkreuzträger der Luftwaffe 1939-1945, Band 1 Jagdflieger, by Ernst Obermaier - (second print 1989) - page 56 Paul Gildner 01.02.1914 born in Nimptsch/Niederschlesien 24/25.02.1943 KIA Gilze-Rijen/Holland 09.07.41 RK; 26.02.43 EL (nr 196) 25.05.42 Deutsche Kreuz Some info for you: - since 1938 als Unteroffizier with 6./JG 132 (later 3./ZG 1) - took part in campaigns over Poland, Norway and France. Shot down a Blenheim on 10 May 40 and a Morane on 5 June 40. On 26 June 40 his unit became part of the Nachtjagd. Also Ludwig Becker (page 56) 22.08.11 in Dortmund 26.02.43 north of Schiermonnikoog/Northsea/Holland 01.07.42 RK; 26.02.43 EL (Nr 198 ) 04.05.42 Deutsches Kreuz 02.03.42 Ehrenpokal Belonged to 3./ZG 1 since start of the war - participated over France and his unit was transferred to Nachtjagd in June 40 - On 16/17 Oct 40 he claimed his first victory with 4./NJG 1. Feb 43 was a costly month of the German nightfighter force. Regards Rob Last edited by rob van den nieuwendijk; 15th October 2006 at 21:52. |
#4
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
I fount it:
http://www.jf-archiv.de/archiv05/200512031821.htm http://www.swg-hamburg.de/Armee_im_K...s_deutsch.html http://www.gyges.dk/heraldics.htm
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Went to war. |
#5
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
Hi all!
Robert - any more info about I./ZG 1 actions over Holland, or over Dunkirk? To John Vasco - is it known how many claims had Erpr.Gr.210 during BoB, and how many aircrafts were lost? THX to all!
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#6
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
Marius - many thanks for Info...
But where did You found NAMES of pilots, who claimed victories during Polish campaign? P.S. About 3 - airplane schwarm of german airplanes: I dont know about earlywar, but on 3.02.42 there was a combat mission of 3 Bf 110 to airfield near Toropetz. Also, during combat mission one of four could return because of tech problems e.t.c, and 3 other could continue flight to target. "Kette" could appear because of many reasons, & this is not showing that "that planes was BOMBERS or STUKAS. IMHO.
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Went to war. |
#7
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
Eugen,
If you are confused by Franek, don`t mind. Franek does not like my work, because I found many German records which are clearing up with so many Polish legends. For him every German document is incomplete or even falsified when contrary to Polish pilots memories. The main point is he must not revise his own vision of air war history in Poland. PHP Code:
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Rotte - 2 aircraft (fighter), Kette - 3 aircraft (bomber), Schwarm - 4 aircraft (fighter). For the 4th Sept. 1939 it is remarkable that several Polish pilots reported they have fought with formations of "3 German airplanes". No doubt, they were mainly Ju 87`s of III./StG 2. Sure, it could happen that one Bf 110 or Bf 109 had to fly back to basis with engine trouble and there remained 3 aircraft in the air. But the Luftwaffe formation of two fighters was already introduced in Spain and later taken over by other nations. But nonetheless of this story I had 18 German victories for the 5th Sept. 1939 before I looked to the details of the mission of the Polish 112 eskadra. Official German documents are reporting of at all 20 victories for the day. So the remaining two victories could indeed be claimed by I./ZG 1 against 112 eskadra. Polish losses are confirming this. Also the account of the formation leader kpt.Opulski. And additionally I have an account of a German airman who was shot down in the Ju 87. He wrote about 2 Polish losses he observed before he had to leave the formation and forceland on Polish territory. Here is something for you from a German document (translated into English by a friend of mine); Expieriences of I.(Z)/LG 1 in Poland 1939: The escort is, according to availibility, to be composed from at least 1 "Schwarm" of Zerstörer formed from 2 "Rotte". The "Schwarm" should fly loosely stepped, within sight of the bomber "Staffel" at appr. the same altitude as the tail "Kette" of the bomber "Staffel". Attacks are to be executed by the "Rotte"... (another simple translation of the last sentence: The general operational formation is the "Rotte".). Marius |
#8
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
2 Marius: thx for help, really. It seems its all clear with I./ZG 1 in Poland. If I will have any additional questions or e.t.c. - I will ask using Privat Message, Ok?
Then, many thanks to all for info about invasion in Denmark. Very interesting, really. For now, I bought a book about Blitzkrieg in West. Now I trying to find some moments about invasion in Holland, and Dunkirk. Also, any websourse aviable about those aircombats may-june 1940?
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Went to war. |
#9
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Re: I./ZG 1 claims in 1939 - 1940 - any info?
I am closing this thread as it has lost its focus.
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